----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Perella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Truth and the Linguistic Turn
Matt, Ron, and Marsha (Marsha mentioned in the P.S.)
Matt:
Mmm, I don't know about this way of picking out
Platonists. You're talking about something that can
occur in any particular person, independent of their
philosophical views, a kind of willingness and curiosity to
explore other things. But I hesitate to attribute
philosophical views to people that would rather watch
football than read or watch Nature programs. I think
Platonism does have something to do with this larger,
cultural situation--of people who don't even want to
_hear_ the other side (for fear of changing, becoming
convinced)--but I think it is much touchier business than
almost everyone here, and Pirsig for that matter, think it
is in linking up philosophical views with cultural
situations. I think the two are more independent of each
other, though you can, given careful treatment, go back and
forth between them. I think Pirsig did it very well in ZMM,
and pretty good again in Lila, though in the latter he
devoted more of his time to a metaphysics that attempts to
gain the philosophers are there own ground, which is
needed, but is also less useful when you turn to the larger
cultural situation.
What I pick out with "Platonism" is a
specifically philosophical series of theses--this is,
again, my way of unmuddying my target. My targets are,
primarily, other philosophers. When I turn to the larger
cultural situation, I might grasp a few of the weapons
honed in my battles in philosophy, but--as your little bar
dialogue illustrated--they might not always be the best
weapons. Who's going to wait around to hear a lecture
on Plato? When I'm trying to effect change in the
larger culture (normally, one person at a time), I reach
for different weapons, one's they will understand.
People understand "curiosity"; they don't
usually understand "SOM" or
"Platonism." The weapons I choose will certainly
reflect to a certain extent my understanding of specifically
philosophical issues, but there's no good reason to
spend time on that when you're at the bar, not unless
you want to sound pretentious.
SA: This was, by far, one of the clearest posts I've read of yours, by
clear, I mean you provided some intention into your activities in life,
for one specifically, why you post here and the points your trying to
convey. This last part of your post, though mentioned many times earlier,
gets into your focus and what your trying to cultivate.
To provide something on my part that could easily be a spin-off story
of the main story here, thus, maybe just a simple passing side note on
what Ron and you mention here about 'bar people' or people who watch
football games. This doesn't have to be something informative for you and
Ron probably already understand this, but it is a passing blurb if you
will.
Everybody has a philosophy. Some more descriptive than others. Some
more descriptive in the usage of philosophical points by those that call
themselves philosophers, academic to be a little more meaningful as to
whom I'm pointing out. These types of philosophers use the terms and
understand the terms of philosophers of the philosophy discipline more so.
It's takes a bit of schooling and reading as we well know to learn of this
discipline as any other discipline that carries with it a history of
people who practiced this in the past. How else would we learn what they
talked and/or wrote about, correct. Unless it is passed down orally but
as we well know, people aren't around many people who talk about the
philosophy discipline all that much, and even in the university with
professional philosophers and the conferences they attend to talk with
each other, some of the points they may want to learn about can easily be
found in a book instead of
searching for somebody to talk about what specifically we want to learn
about from such and such a philosopher at this or that point in history.
Now, the people who watch football games. They are not reading and
searching for these historical concepts that probably are tuning their
lifestyles in ways they (the football watchers) do not readily understand.
I mean we find bits and pieces of where history is orienting our daily
lives from time to time that is interesting and we've all had these
moments. Pirsig points out how the culture of Europeans and Amerindians
in terms of value coalesced in ways that shaped the U.S. culture. Culture
is cultivated over time, thus, has a history. And people walk patterns
built by a history of intentions, thus, concepts as to how and what is to
happen and eventually does happen. Newton, the philosopher understands
gravity in ways that help lead up to airplanes flying and people take
business trips on these machines. Sure many people along the way, before
and after Newton leads up to these understandings of airplanes and how
those flying travels shape
how people do business now-a-days, etc...
So what are the philosophies of these football game watchers. What is
my philosophy, yours, or anybodies? One way, as we well know, is
understood in their lifestyles. Whether people realize it or not, our
lifestyles are philosophies, ways of life are philosophies. Maybe not
analyzed in one way as to how much the thoughts lead up to the actions of
watching a football game, but the very act of watching a game is doing
what with a person, making them happy if their team wins, fun with the
friends, etc...
So, I guess my point of all of this, is, what are we doing? I
enjoyed reading this Matt, and I look forward to Ron's exchange. If it is
helping you understand something and making you happy and/or reaching your
interests and intentions, well, that's what is probably encouraging this
discussion to continue. This spark of enliving, bringing out ones self,
and to look around for oneself that really has one feel alive is found in
many ways. Fun is one of them. Stimulating ones thoughts another.
Reaching a business goal. Fulfilling ones dreams. Getting that TV you
always wanted. The dream has come alive and is lived. Now whether this
dream is agreeable with what kind of dream you find worth pursuing or I do
or John Doe, etc... that's another story and might be discovered in the
thread that's exploring whether a brain in a vat that is mystically moral
is worth the natural endeavor or not, well, as Ian pointed out, is
answered naturally - so
it's a wait and see kind of event.
Thanks Ron and Matt.
Enjoyable.
tree,
SA
P.S. Marsha, haven't had the time to finish listening to the Opera. I
only started listening to it yesterday, so, I haven't sat down to listen
to it straight through without stopping to do other activities. But it is
good so far. The camping? Well, we made it all the way to the campsite,
and I began to gather firewood... and that's when part of tree that I was
pushing up on, slipped through my hands, knocked me on the head, the blood
came rushing out, and my wife had to help doctor me (also my son). I put
green moss and dirt on it to plug up the gash while my wife made a fire so
we could put the ashes on the wound to stop the bleeding. I laid down and
my wife put some fine ashes on the wound after she poked it with a burning
stick to help stop the bleeding. The ashes slowed the blood down
tremendously, enough so that I could finally put band-aids on without the
blood gushing out past the band-aids. I had to keep my head back and
still do at the
moment without bending over for too long or some blood builds up in the
area, as we all know, and all this blood is too much on the scab and some
comes out. Yet, not too much comes out, the one large band-aid almost as
big as my forehead can handle it without me having to change it too soon.
So, we didn't stay. With all the blood, and the danger that it could
continue to bleed a lot over night, we left and came back to the house.
I've been cleaning the wound regularly and changing the bandage often. I
say my son helped for as my wife was applying ash he (remember he's twenty
months old) picked up some ash and put it on my wound too. He shows his
very big human heart already. He's so helpful, so touching. We're trying
to avoid the stitches, and so far it seems I may not need them, though,
the blood still leaks through at times, as I said, especially if I lean
over for too long.
I remember laying on the earth while my wife applied the ashes and my
son looked over me. These birds were flying around in the branches above
me for a long time. It was like the stories. I jokingly said to my wife,
"Are the birds singing and flying signifying my passage into some heavenly
place?" She said and laughed while saying it, for I was nowhere near
dying, "Well, if you see white light and you want to." I said, "Heck no
and laughed."
I've been lounging around most of the day, went outside a little bit,
but I really can't exert myself too much for it pushes the blood through
the healing wound. I really don't know what to make of all of this. This
is the second time I've tried to bring my son on his first camping trip,
and our first one for the year. Last week it was the thunderstorms and
this week a young fallen tree on the noggin'. It's baffling, but in a
way, I like this feeling of baffling. I think the tree really knocked
some sense into me.
SA, tree,
I am sorry that you were physically injured. It is good that you are okay,
and that you experienced comfort from your wife and little son.
Baffling, or the philosophy of baffled. To read and read to discover how
little you know. Baffling. There is a prayer to Shiva to dance on one's
head. That would be to knock some sense into one, or in other words to
abandon thought. Baffling.
My statement about Tim Russert was much too small. I have listened to some
of the talking at his Memorial. It seems he had a very large heart and an
abundance of compassion for his family and friends.
The two little wrens work constantly to bring food to their young. I think
they have been too tired to sing lately.
Take care of yourself.
Marsha
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