Amazing Gav, I'm just blogging a piece on having finished Crime and Punishment, and the line I took from the final page was this one ...
"In place of dialectics life had arrived, and in his consciousness something of a wholly different nature must now work towards fruition." Same message I think. Ian On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 2:53 AM, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > hi, >> Interested in the Dostoevsky reference ... just finished >> Crime & >> Punsihment (after Karamazov Brothers last year) .... I get >> the >> allusions all the time, wonderful stuff, but I'm >> struggling to pin >> down specifics. Could you elaborate your point on that ? >> >> Ian. > > in crime and punishment raskolnikov slides further and further into a sort of > schizophrenic tension....on the one hand he sees himself ennobling his > position through simply having the audacity to do what one wills...on the > other he is entrapped by his own emotional sensitivity which seems to thwart > the practical attainment of any material betterment of his condition. > > ultimately the tension snaps and he murders a miserly old lady in cold > blood... driven by frustration and justified by the essentially amoral world > of scientific materialism that informs his musings...by extension, this the > western weltanschauung drives society as a whole to more extreme and horrific > acts, driven by this same frustration and excused through rationalisation. > > fyodor saw it coming....and he foresaw the remedy too: a return to life - to > the world. in fact i think the last line of the book is: > > "But that is the beginning of a new story—the story of the gradual renewal of > a man, the story of his gradual regeneration, of his passing from one world > into > another, of his initiation into a new unknown life. That might be the subject > of a new > story, but our present story is ended." > > replace 'a man' with 'man' and you have the story.... > >> >> On 7/28/08, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Pirsig's mission is to replace SOM with MOQ, so >> why are many on this list reluctant to let SOM go? >> > >> > the answer, i believe, is that . >> > >> > the intellectual cannot be solely SOM: the MOQ is an >> idea and it is not SOM. >> > >> > to let go of SOM is to let go of the idea of dualism, >> of solipsism, of the possibility of pure objectivity. >> instead the subjective becomes partnered with the >> intersubjective (to follow husserl and merleau-ponty). the >> intersubjective world - the previously 'objective' >> world - is the world of phenomenal consensus. >> > >> > with the copernican re-ordering of the universe a >> schism was created: the everyday world of our perceptions >> was usurped by the idea of the 'real' order of a >> heliocentric universe. the locus is not with our own >> body-subject and its being-in-the-world, but with an >> abstract point of reference. this abstract realm is only >> accessible by the intellect. in other words reason becomes >> the sole method of recognising truth - plato's world of >> forms, christian heaven, and the pre-eminence of (SOM) >> intellect all presuppose and perpetuate this >> abstract-phenomenal dichotomy with precedence given to the >> abstract. in other words the abstract becomes real and the >> phenomenal becomes epiphenomenal: this is baudrillard's >> 'simulacrum' or the spectacular reality of the >> situationists. SOM is part of this worldview and it >> can't be separated from it. to try and hang on to SOM is >> to miss the point of pirsig's work. >> > >> > the copernican revolution enthroned the sun as the >> centre of things; this is a paternal standpoint. the earth >> is the goddess, the sun is god and the human is supposed to >> be the dynamic union of the two. since copernicus the earth >> has become merely an object and only god - the male aspect >> of divinity - is recognised. >> > >> > we perceive from earth. our experiential locus is the >> body-subject - this is the experiential centre of the >> universe (god is an intelligible sphere whose centre is >> everywhere and circumference nowhere - cusa). only from this >> point of view can we esemplastically reconcile the realms of >> heaven and earth into a dynamic unity. >> > >> > if we need more proof of the need for SOM to be >> superceded we need only look to phenomenology and >> existentialism. the psychopathological effects of SOM were >> recognised and predicted by husserl and others (most >> famously dostoevsky). SOM is the 'disensoulment' of >> the earth - of ourselves. it is the mechanisation of life >> and human and it is this that is the meaning of the robot/AI >> myths - NOT the production of truly intelligent autonomous >> mechanical beings, but the production of mechanical beings >> from truly intelligent autonomous ones!!!!!!!! >> > >> > so i entreat one and all to stay true to the core of >> pirsig's work. if you think SOM is okay then you are >> very sorely mistaken and you should probably go back and >> read bob's books again...slowly. >> > >> > >> > >> > Find a better answer, faster with the new Yahoo!7 >> Search. www.yahoo7.com.au/search >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7. > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
