OK, I am disturbed but I'll run with homo holos; I just meant better than the current human animal. We are all equal, but some are more equal than others.
-Peter 2008/7/30 gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > embrace evolution. > > homo superior is the problem - humans as superior than other life. this is > damaging nonsense. we are inseparable from all phenomena - from the earth - > at the fundamental level. tat tvam asi. > for something to be superior requires a reciprocal inferiority on the part > of the other. this sounds like a (psychopathological) complex to me. > > homo holos is more to my liking. > > > --- On Wed, 30/7/08, Peter Corteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Peter Corteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [MD] Tit's > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Received: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008, 7:06 PM > > sorry dave, gav; not trying to put words into anyone's > > mouths but I did say > > you can't reject SOM. Likewise we are stuck with > > language and it's adopted > > child, aleph beth; embrace them as the ancestors of the > > homo superior. > > > > 2008/7/30 gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > sorry to butt in but some nlp techniques seem to have > > pooped in here (just > > > used one myself - did ya see it?). > > > dave didn't say that we can't reject SOM - > > only you did peter. > > > its SOM or MOQ (or some other similar monistic > > paradigm) - cannae have it > > > both ways. > > > > > > jeez that is the whole point - replacing SOM with > > MOQ...that's why we're > > > here, that's why bob wrote and thought a lot and > > went a bit potty....its a > > > big deal guys and gals....we are talking about a new > > reality, literally. > > > > > > we are suspended in a language that is divorced from > > the world around us. > > > it is a legacy of the importation of the hebrew > > alphabet into greece....what > > > resulted was a language composed of characters that > > had no connection to the > > > world from which they were originally drawn. > > > separation....plato's forms....christian > > heaven....descartes, copernicus, > > > galilieo:SOM.... > > > the damage this has done to the psyche, to the > > earth...is > > > awe-inspiring...really amazing. > > > such a little thing....hey boromir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 30/7/08, Peter Corteen > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Peter Corteen > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: [MD] Tit's > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Received: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008, 5:50 PM > > > > Hi dmb, > > > > > > > > agreed that we can't reject SOM and that the > > > > 'experience of not being able > > > > to walk through is more real than the > > > > "wall"'. SOM is an indispensable > > > > convention that we are hard wired with. You > > can't have > > > > mind without matter > > > > and vice-versa; I acknowledge spirit only in > > terms of > > > > intentionality. What > > > > will be the characteristics of those beings who > > are not > > > > limited by SOM? > > > > > > > > -Peter > > > > > > > > 2008/7/29 david buchanan > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter said: > > > > > SOM - mind and matter, it's more than a > > thinking > > > > convention; we have no > > > > > choice but to act as if it's so - just > > try > > > > pretending the wall isn't there > > > > > and try to walk through it, you can't. > > > > > > > > > > dmb says: > > > > > The fact that we can't walk through > > walls remains > > > > even if we reject SOM. > > > > > Likewise, adopting the MOQ does not entail > > any claims > > > > about being able to > > > > > walk through walls. Think of it in terms of > > reversing > > > > the relationship > > > > > between "objects" and > > "quality". > > > > SOM says the wall is an objective reality, > > > > > a real substance, and its properties or > > qualities are > > > > such that it can not > > > > > be walked through. It has hardness and > > flatness. It > > > > offers resistance when > > > > > we put pressure on it. The MOQ says that > > these > > > > qualities come first and that > > > > > the "wall" is secondary, an > > interpretation > > > > of the qualities felt in > > > > > experience. And of course the idea of a > > > > "wall" works well with many other > > > > > ideas such as doors and windows. (The idea > > of a wall > > > > also connects to paint, > > > > > to floors, ceilings, houses, gardens, towns, > > Berlin > > > > during the Cold War, > > > > > China during the Mongol invasions and, the > > line > > > > between church and state, a > > > > > place of blindfolded executions, to a lesser > > or > > > > greater degree, to every > > > > > other idea in the whole lang > > > > > uage system.) In the MOQ, the experience of > > not being > > > > able to walk through > > > > > is more real than the "wall". As > > in the hot > > > > stove example, the "wall" is > > > > > subsequently ascribed as the reason or cause > > of not > > > > being able to walk > > > > > through. Rejecting SOM in no way denies the > > experience > > > > from which these > > > > > ideas are derived, it is simply a matter of > > stepping > > > > back to see that > > > > > subjects and objects are conventional > > concepts, useful > > > > concepts, rather than > > > > > the starting point of reality or the cause > > of > > > > experience. The MOQ says that > > > > > experience comes first, that experience IS > > reality. In > > > > that sense, not being > > > > > able to walk through is as real as it gets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face > > with > > > > Windows Live Messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008 > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > > > Archives: > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > > > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > > Archives: > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > Find a better answer, faster with the new > > Yahoo!7 Search. > > > www.yahoo7.com.au/search > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Find a better answer, faster with the new Yahoo!7 Search. > www.yahoo7.com.au/search > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
