If SOM is the "impassable chasm twixt the wall and me" gav, then the remedy for that solipsistic attitude is to recognise the impracticality of that world view by attempting to walk through the wall; that should convince that although the mental imagery of the subjects and objects involved are not the things in themselves, nevertheless they are the direct representatives of the things themselves so that those mental symbols are, to all intents and purposes, are the actual things.
-Peter 2008/7/29 gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > that's not SOM. > SOM is the DIVISION. the impassable chasm twixt the wall and me, hence > schizo-reality > but perception is a reciprocity between me and the phenomenal world - it is > an event. there is no chasm, there is participation. > > > --- On Tue, 29/7/08, Peter Corteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Peter Corteen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [MD] Tit's > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Received: Tuesday, 29 July, 2008, 9:22 PM > > Hi all, > > > > SOM - mind and matter, it's more than a thinking > > convention; we have no > > choice but to act as if it's so - just try pretending > > the wall isn't there > > and try to walk through it, you can't. > > > > -Peter > > > > 2008/7/29 Ham Priday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > Greetings, Platt -- > > > > > > Since you mentioned my name . . . > > >> > > >> I would say that UNLESS Value can be cognitively > > abstracted > > >> in its pure form, we could not tell any difference > > between good > > >> and bad, right and wrong. Cognitively, any > > differentiation > > >> presupposes a unitary whole -- or in plain > > English, logically you > > >> can' t have many without one. > > >> > > >> I don't understand why you separate Marsha, > > me, yourself or > > >> anyone else from the universe, as if she, me, you > > and everyone > > >> else isn't an integral product and part of the > > universe. > > >> > > > > > > Your "plain English" statement is quite > > correct. Everything comes from > > > one. Diversity is actually a negation or > > "reduction" of the unitary whole, > > > rather than something "added" to it. > > That's why, metaphysically speaking, > > > the individual self cannot be a "part" of > > the whole. That would invalidate > > > the unity principle. We are parts of the universe, of > > course. But, unlike > > > the universe, Essence is indivisible. Therefore, > > subjective awareness is no > > > more essential than objective beingness is, and values > > are relational, like > > > everything else in existence. > > > > > > You'll recall my definition of the individual > > subject as the "being-aware" > > > dichotomy. (It's a dichotomy because the > > contingencies are mutually > > > dependent; one cannot exist without the other.) But > > Essence is a unitary > > > whole which has no other. The appearance of otherness > > is created by the > > > negational power of Essence. In my creation > > hypothesis, I use the analogy > > > of the diameter inscribed in a circle to divide it > > into two semicircles. > > > That imaginary line is nothingness, and the > > "creation" of two from one is > > > actually a negation. The principle of negation not > > only accounts for the > > > separaion of sensibility from being, but it's how > > we delineate every thing > > > and event in experience. You could say that all > > otherness is an illusion, > > > since from the perspective of Essence there is no > > other. (re: Cusa's first > > > principle) > > > > > > How does value figure into this scheme? Selfness is > > sensibility divided > > > from Essence. > > > Sensibility is what perceives, knows, feels, and > > desires for itself, > > > relative to the other. > > > It is the pre-intellectual (non-cognitive) awareness > > of the other's value, > > > but not its essence. (There's your "pure > > abstracted" Value, Platt.) But > > > the human individual is a conscious organism, a > > being-aware, and, as such, > > > its sensibility is mediated by organic receptors and > > the organizing > > > faculties of the cerebrum. That's why, like > > everything that exists, value > > > is experienced differentially -- morally, > > esthetically, qualitatively, etc, > > > -- and within a range from excellent or most desirable > > to poor or least > > > desirable. It is this differentiation of value which > > makes free choice and > > > morality possible. > > > > > > To me the universe not only has value to us, but > > values itself > > >> through us. Indeed there is no difference, only > > thinking makes it so. > > >> > > > > > > The universe represents our value sensibility to > > Essence. It is Essence > > > which "values itself through us". Yes, if > > we stopped thinking there would > > > be no difference. There would also be no value, no > > experience, no > > > being-in-the-universe for you or me. Please don't > > get me wrong ... we need > > > the SOM perspective if we are to participate > > effectively in this relational > > > world. It would be imbecilic to go around shouting > > "We're deceived -- > > > reality is only an illusion!" At the same time, > > once we realize this > > > truth, it does not profit us to ignore it. > > > > > > Cheers and best wishes, > > > Ham > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Find a better answer, faster with the new Yahoo!7 Search. > www.yahoo7.com.au/search > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
