Hi Peter

You're right, my mistake.

David M


Hi David,

I have not heard of a connection between Whitehead and F.M.Alexander. I did
a google search and came up with:
'A. N. Whitehead and Samuel Alexander were two of the few British
philosophers who produced comprehensive metaphysical systems in the early
part of this century'.

But that is not the same Alexander.

F.M.Alexander gave lessons in physical re-education to John Dewey over a
period of many years (http://www.alexandertechnique.com/articles/dewey/).

-Peter

2008/8/6 David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hi Peter

And Alexander connects to Whitehead who connects to Dewey and
Heidegger who connects to Derrida and it might all just start to come
together in something that transcends Enlightenment thinking.

DM



 Hi Gav,

I'd not heard of Merleau-Ponty before; I think there is a strong
connection
here with the work of F.M.Alexander and then a reinforcing tie back with
Alexander's influence on Dewey. Alexander's was a very practical approach
to
the use of the self especially with regard to postural habit. Critically,
the technique he developed is based absolutely on none-SOM principles in
his
treatment of the self as a psycho-physical organism where the practitioner
attempts to constantly re-establish sensory contact with the body and
thereby lives more in the moment.

Also, the practice of self-remembering (re-membering: again deliberate
re-establishment of sensory contact with the body while working) is,
without
question, the most useful thing I took away from my time in Gurdjieff
groups.

-Peter

2008/7/29 gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Pirsig's mission is to replace SOM with MOQ, so why are many on this list
reluctant to let SOM go?

the answer, i believe, is that SOM is so entrenched in our collective
psyche that it is very difficult to conceive of it being superceded. if
this
supercession were not difficult then pirsig needn't have spent decades
thinking through the problem. pirsig is not the first philosopher to
recognise the subject/object schism...indeed this profound dilemma has
been
haunting philosophy for centuries. to move beyond SOM requires radical
surgery.

the intellectual cannot be solely SOM: the MOQ is an idea and it is not
SOM.

to let go of SOM is to let go of the idea of dualism, of solipsism, of
the
possibility of pure objectivity. instead the subjective becomes partnered
with the intersubjective (to follow husserl and merleau-ponty). the
intersubjective world - the previously 'objective' world - is the world
of
phenomenal consensus.

with the copernican re-ordering of the universe a schism was created: the
everyday world of our perceptions was usurped by the idea of the 'real'
order of a heliocentric universe. the locus is not with our own
body-subject
and its being-in-the-world, but with an abstract point of reference. this abstract realm is only accessible by the intellect. in other words reason
becomes the sole method of recognising truth - plato's world of forms,
christian heaven, and the pre-eminence of (SOM) intellect all presuppose
and
perpetuate this abstract-phenomenal dichotomy with precedence given to
the
abstract. in other words the abstract becomes real and the phenomenal
becomes epiphenomenal: this is baudrillard's 'simulacrum' or the
spectacular
reality of the situationists. SOM is part of this worldview and it can't
be
separated from it. to try and hang on to SOM is to miss the point of
pirsig's work.

the copernican revolution enthroned the sun as the centre of things; this
is a paternal standpoint. the earth is the goddess, the sun is god and
the
human is supposed to be the dynamic union of the two. since copernicus
the
earth has become merely an object and only god - the male aspect of
divinity
- is recognised.

we perceive from earth. our experiential locus is the body-subject - this is the experiential centre of the universe (god is an intelligible sphere
whose centre is everywhere and circumference nowhere - cusa). only from
this
point of view can we esemplastically reconcile the realms of heaven and
earth into a dynamic unity.

if we need more proof of the need for SOM to be superceded we need only
look to phenomenology and existentialism. the psychopathological effects
of
SOM were recognised and predicted by husserl and others (most famously
dostoevsky). SOM is the 'disensoulment' of the earth - of ourselves. it
is
the mechanisation of life and human and it is this that is the meaning of
the robot/AI myths - NOT the production of truly intelligent autonomous
mechanical beings, but the production of mechanical beings from truly
intelligent autonomous ones!!!!!!!!

so i entreat one and all to stay true to the core of pirsig's work. if
you
think SOM is okay then you are very sorely mistaken and you should
probably
go back and read bob's books again...slowly.



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