[Ron] But you still evade the question of responsibility. You divert to questions of identity once again.
[Arlo] Okay, fair enough. I though I answered this already, but you don't think I have. I'll take another crack at it. Ron; now we're getting somewhere. Arlo: Responsibility is social law, Ron, and this law is based on the belief that there is a thread of continuity running through all the selves that inhabit a particular brain. We agree, socially, that this continuity exists and therefore can punish the "entirety" of the selves in a brain for the actions of any one. I agree with this, and find it a necessary law to preserve social stability. I've said several times in this thread that holding the illusion of "the real Arlo" accountable for the actions of any one of his many "pretend faces" is just and necessary social law. Ron; Seeing how the human condition is defined by social level patterns , I'd say you confuse the term illusion with hallucination. An illusion is a distortion, it exists but not as perceived. Consequently "self" exists but not in the way our society perceives it. as a singularity of mind/body No? Arlo: What I am pointing out, over and over, is that this thread of continuity is not real, its an illusion. A valuable one, to be sure, and one we NEED to ensure social stability. But we have to be very careful we don't start seeing this illusion as a dogmatic reality. It serves us, we should not be serving it. Does this answer your question? Ron; Got it, and then some. Arlo: In other words, in cases where social stability is threatened we use this illusion to preserve our social world. In cases where this is not the case, we need to step back and see that this thread of continuity has no existence apart from the immediate, contextual activities of the moment. When social stability is threatened, we can lock up "Mark" for the crimes of "Julia". But otherwise, when we really think about "Mark" and "Julia" we must remember that the illusion of continuity we build is only a social convention and not some absolute real self pretending to be someone else. [Ron says of "the source"] That ball of yarn with many faces which the words and ideas you submit originate from. [Arlo] You are saying, if I understand, that the "source" is the sum-total of all our "selves"? And it includes our physiology as well? Ron: Yes, what is left sans social convention? is the biological pattern Arlo, Nope. What else is there other than the "illusion" of social convention? nothing. So I offer that the social convention is "self" with all the percs and responsibilities that entails which includes (in our society) integrity and honesty as essential values. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
