[Ron prev] now we're getting somewhere.
[Arlo] I was already "somewhere", Ron. I find the considerations of identity fascinating and highly valuable. If I meet you in your "place" of responsibility, I hope you consider joining me over in my "place" of identity. Ron: That's the trouble your head is buried in identity, I get it! you have stomped a mud hole in identity and walked it dry. so lets leave it be for a moment and look at ethics. [Ron] Seeing how the human condition is defined by social level patterns, I'd say you confuse the term illusion with hallucination. An illusion is a distortion, it exists but not as perceived. Consequently "self" exists but not in the way our society perceives it as a singularity of mind/body. No? [Arlo] Well, hmm. Let's make sure when we say "the self exists" we aren't using S/O understandings of "existence". The "self" is a value pattern according to the MOQ, and its perceived "existence" has everything to do with its value. Indeed, this is why I say that the "Arlo" that exists in this social world called "MOQ Discuss" is every bit as real (and every bit as unreal) as the "Aenea" that exists in the social world called "Warcraft". The existence of BOTH is tied to their active, social value. I use the word illusion along the lines of a Gestalt "image" or hologram. The term "hallucination" contains too much pejorative meaning for me to like it in this context. [Ron prev.] Yes, what is left sans social convention? is the biological pattern Arlo, Nope. What else is there other than the "illusion" of social convention? [Arlo] Well this has been my point all along. So what's the beef? Ron: The beef is that you seem to think the many selves absolves one of any sort of responsibility for actions and words simply because it can not be attributed to a singular self. You would make a great defense attorney; You keep citing the use s/o grammar and language as proof of our insistence of a singular self when we understand the technical aspect of what you are saying, it's the ETHICIAL aspect we are harping on which you keep ignoring in redundant glee. In our society Aliases are attributed to nare-do-wells. Usually one is hiding behind an alias. They are the M.O. of Fugitives, criminals and terrorists no? I'm not talking about pseudonym's or pen names I'm talking alter egos and false identities. They are typically the earmark of con artists and thieves. Warcraft is just fine in the world of Warcraft, everybody gets it and everyone agrees to it who gets involved with it. But here we do not have a choice and consequently some of us here do not TRUST it. THIS forum concerns THIS society and part of the social continuity we value depends upon those social values which include honesty and integrity. And THAT is WHY I personally do not DIG it. savy? What I perceive when you exert the illusionary identity theme is that you support an "anything goes" atmosphere and why I get abit cranky about it. Arlo may be your Avatar in this society, but that's THIS society. Using that Avatar, I can physically track you down, research your social history, follow your every move and learn about your family tree. I can bring you to court and have you imprisoned, everyone of your yarn ball of selves, I can pay bubba a carton of cigarettes every week to alter the size of your selves anus and loosen that ball of yarn perhaps tangle that thing up. Believe me the self that is attached to your ass will effect those other selves. There you may ponder as Bubba is reaming you, is he screwing Arlos ass? or is he merely screwing an illusion, which Arlo will be traumatized? the biker Arlo? the Hot pepper Arlo? MY experience of it says that all the selves get screwed. The event traumatizes all the selves some more than others, true, but it effects the whole ball of yarn in the end(no pun intended). Point is, pragmatically, I am quite aware honesty is a social convention but it is not "merely" it IS one of the core values that constitute the "self" as understood in our society which ultimately IS the self in our society for society creates and defines "self" therefore it is a "real" value and not some made up rule that is inconsequential to "reality". Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
