[Ron] But I ask you, isn't this what Krimel does and writes it off to being a wizard of Norrath where social ridicule is something "that wizards will do"?
[Arlo] Kindly point out one instance where Krimel has acted with malicious intent, towards you or anyone. Kindly point out how you feel harm has been done to you by anything Krimel has said or done. Ron: So you can tell me its not? Arlo: Also, know that "social ridicule" in and of itself is a matter of degree. The harm this person sought to inflict on Ant carried over to a harm perpetuated on us all. If it was just a matter of "name calling" or even saying snide comments in the forum, I would condemn it but not think it alone would warrant banning contribution. Hell, I support Platt's ability to be here even if his contributions are typically insults levied against me. It is also a matter of what the context of this deception included. Were I to find out that "Marsha" exists in a "male" body, I would not find this deceptive, nor would I demand that such "deception" be grounds for removal. It is clear, however, that the goal of this person was not to speak against the MOQ, but to actively disrupt attempts by others to speak for the MOQ. Again, there is a line between peaceable assembly and rioting. Social law (written or accepted) must be sensitive to this. Believe me, many here supported what this person had done, and did NOT see it as an act of deceit or maliciousness. Oddly, the people who most supported this deception are the ones who most loudly would denounce my ideas about plurality of selves. So you can see the irony, and why its funny that you'd take my ideas and read into them that I "seemingly" support dishonesty. But give me some examples of things you find deceitful and malicious, and how exactly harm has been done. Ron: As you just demonstrated, it is a matter of degree and perspective as to exactly what constitutes "harm". Ones harm is another's creative play. Where's the line? who draws it? I say each one of us. So if I draw the line at false identities who are you to call this value an illusion that is not real? It's quite certainly real to me if not you. If I were to make light of your feelings toward that person and his actions inflicted on Ant, how would it make you feel? If I told you what you told me about clinging to this convenient "illusion" about this person and his actions so you can feel better. would it irritate you? [Arlo speaks on rape] Of course we are organic beings. Of course pain on the body will be realized by all selves inhabiting this body. But what happens to the body does not happen to the self. You want to make this comical with allusions to anal rape, be my guest, but Bubba can rape my ass all he wants yet he still won't be raping "me". Sure, it'll hurt. Sure, my body will suffer physically. But the "selves" are strong enough to know it is not them who are being abused. Consider, if you will, the difference between rape and consensual tantric sex. One involves only the body, the other the mind. Would you tell a rape victim "she has had sex"? I wouldn't. I'd say her body has been raped, but "sex" is something that has to involve the self. Sure, she will suffer physically (and emotionally), but healing begins when she realizes that the act perpetrated on her body was not perpetrated on "her". Ron: Obviously you have never been raped or abused or you'd see the ridiculousness of that statement. Being raped is not being fucked, being raped is a hate crime it is the deliberate destruction of a human being that may or may not include the destruction of the corporal form. The devastation of that extinguishment of "self" is so traumatic you spend the rest of your life trying to rebuild it not "get over it". The fact that you mention rape and sex in the same sentence shows how much you don't know about the subject, the fact you think the realization of the act perpetrated on the body was not perpetrated on "you" begins a healing process one might find laughable. Three primary emotions are thought to motivate rapists, anger, power and sadism. So, when Bubba is raping you he is not getting off on screwing you, he is getting off on destroying your personhood. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
