To Gav and Woods in particular (& Mati and all) ... Firtsly, I guess we should not be surprized at the patriotic rhetoric in a president elect's speech ... some of the rhetoric was indeed excellent, but it's still rhetoric ... I quoted a couple of passages myself already ... ones that don't specifically mention the good ole US of A naturally ;-).
Gav makes forcefully a point I have been trying to make to you Woods about "better governane". It is indeed wonderful (symbolically) that someone such as Obama gets elected in the current US democracy .. some of us have been harboring terrible fears of alternative outcomes throughout this process, I can tell you. As Mr Pangloss might have said, it may the best possible outcome ... so far. But, beyond a very good (if abused) constitution and bill of rights, and a popular presidential electoral system that actually seems to work as advertised ... what will actually change in the organs, workings and outputs of "governance", once the feelgood rhetoric dies down ? Or is business as usual really good enough ? I genuinely believe Obama is well-intentioned, well-adjusted, intelligent, pragmatic, compassionate, etc and that he knows rhetoric from reality .... and I suspect sadly he is already hamstrung by the ongoing economic realities. But what should we do to help real change for the better ? Ian On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:32 AM, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hiya, > > mati: >> I will end with an excerpt from Obama's speech. >> >> "To those -- to those who would tear the world down: >> We will defeat >> you. To those who seek peace and security: We support you. >> And to all >> those who have wondered if America's beacon still burns >> as bright: >> Tonight we proved once more that the true strength of our >> nation comes >> not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, >> but from >> the enduring power of our ideals: democracy, liberty, >> opportunity and >> unyielding hope. >> >> That's the true genius of America: that America can >> change. Our union >> can be perfected. What we've already achieved gives us >> hope for what >> we can and must achieve tomorrow. " > > what a load of bollocks. > sorry to rain on the obamarama parade but really: those that seek to tear the > world down we will defeat you?! fuck off you self-righteous wanna be white > strongman. america needs to change - fuck yeah! will obama do it (can any one > person?) - probably not from the sound of it. > still looking for saviours aren't we.... > anyone i hope i am completely and utterly wrong > good luck > gav > ps we voted for change over here too last year - kevin 'i speak mandarin' > rudd. so far it's business as usual. > > >> >> >> Mati >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started > http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
