I'd like to take issue with the "anti-theistic mindset of Pirsig and his 
followers", as Ham put it. To say that "Christendom has no place in the MoQ" is 
a bit like saying the European Middle Age has no place in the MOQ. 
"Christendom" is a social, political and historical fact. But it is true that 
"faith" (belief without empirical reasons) is considered to be of low-quality. 
In that sense, the MOQ is anti-theistic. The principles of Radical Empiricism 
will not allow assertions about anything that is beyond experience, that can't 
be known in experience, and so rejects any kind of "metaphysical" or 
supernatural entities as such. But Ham rightly points out that "this is not to 
say that spirituality is not a central element of Pirsig's thesis", although I 
don't think it is anything "disguised" about it. Nor do I think the MOQ is "a 
philosophy that is flawed by the separation of the individual from the 
universe." Quite the opposite. Pirsig's central enemy (SOM) is heavily 
implicated in that separation and the MOQ's philosophical mysticism is actually 
the antidote to that separation. (Thou Art That) Further, experience is NOT 
"man's only acknowledged link to universal existence". (Assume "universal 
existence" is a fancy way to say "universe".) In the MOQ experience is not a 
LINK TO reality. Experience IS reality. And finally, its not true that "the MoQ 
dismisses the essential nature of the individual". It does, however, dismiss 
the Cartesian self because of the way it sets up the separation between 
objective reality and the subjective mind, which is apparently a lot like Ham's 
"free, value-sensible agent". In a nutshell, I think Ham doesn't understand the 
problem (SOM) or the solution (MOQ). It is no accident that SOM and theism go 
hand in hand. Descartes' Cogito is basically a secular soul, an entity distinct 
from the physical realm and without extension. And so it's not surprising that 
Ham's essentialism is essentially a mixture of SOM theism with a little dash of 
rationalism. It's Cartesian enough to be considered part of the problem that 
the MOQ is meant to solve. That's why he is at odds with all of the most 
crucial elements, including the alternative conception of the self (ego as 
little self and Big Self) and the related mystical dimension. A brief 
discussion of the connection between Jesus and Buddha would be one way to 
explain this kind of mysticism. I guess we'll never know if Jesus visited 
India, learned about Buddhism from someone who had and what. I think the 
similarities between them can be explained psychologically and there doesn't 
need to be any geographic or scholarly connections. As every Joseph Campbell 
fan knows, Jesus and Buddha are like a thousand other heroes. And they're just 
like us too. They stand as examples of what we must all do. Take the journey 
and see for yourself in your own experience. Don't take it on faith and don't 
confuse intellectual descriptions with the experience itself. Mystical reality 
is not something you believe in so much as something you go through, suffer and 
enjoy. This is the essence of the reason for rejecting faith based beliefs, 
theism, theocracy and tradition in favor of an empirically-based world view. 
Obviously, this is not the empiricism of the positivists insofar as it fully 
accepts these so-called "subjective" experiences as real, just as real as rocks 
and rain. These are psychological facts, if you will. And the idea here is that 
all the world's religions are based on these psychological facts, they all grow 
out of these kinds of experiences. In that sense, the MOQ doesn't reject 
religion so much as it ranks the original experience over the social and 
political institutions and the mere professions of faith. Christendom's place 
in the MOQ is within the social level of static quality while mystical 
experience is Dynamic and part of the process of human growth and 
transformation. If a religion is healthy and functioning its system of rituals 
and symbols precipitate this experience in those who take part, but in our 
postmodern, technological world they no longer function. Our world is too loud 
and so it drowns out the whispering voices of myth and we hardly know how to 
read the symbols. Thus the rise of fundamentalism, literalism and fanaticism. 
These forms of theism are so far removed from actual religious experience that 
it's hard to see any connection at all. They're just ego-driven political 
movements. dmb 
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