Bo, I think Matt just did make his decision. You will not accept it. You will only accept what you want to hear.
-Ron ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:32:07 AM Subject: Re: [MD] The Quality/MOQ dichotomy. Hi Matt In the present "tsunami" of ill-edited and silly posts you are a relief. On 2 Feb. u wrote: ...... much and reminisced a bit about the old days at the Lila Squad and I agree about it all. the LS started along with the Internet - its popular phase at least - and I remember printing out every post as if important documents. Hah! one single month these days makes for a whole year back then. I really can't remember your initial stance, I have the impression that you went through several phase as the skeptical "fallen priest", "enraged endorphin", I'm not sure even this day what you think about the MOQ. The Rorty debate you had going with DMB sounded as if Rorty somehow overrides Pirsig IYO, but then, disagreeing with DMB is a good sign. ;-) Speaking about the "devil", I can't forget DMB forceful entry around the same time that you entered (?) and his great knowledge about the old mythologies that he correctly attributed to the social level (this backing the SOL) and his still skeptical attitude regarding some of most impossible utterings by the latter- day Pirsig in Lila's Child. But then prostrating himself before Paul Turner and after that referring to "mysticism" when logic failed him. If the MOQ is to earn its laurels it has to stick to its Western "guns" i.e. use intellect (the level) as its springboard and drop the "Zen" affinity, to elevate metaphysics to a new of LOGOS not lapsing back to MYTHOS. By the way, Eastern philosophy is only mystical seen from SOM which proves my point. Matt: > On the actual topic at hand, I'm afraid I don't have much to say. > It's very difficult for me to follow you, partly because I find > numerous parts contentious and I can't tell where the important > contentions are. You move too quickly for me. But you said this-- Here must be some will to NOT understand. I point to the simple fact that the MOQ diagram has a Quality box on top which spawns ANOTHER DQ. There is only one DQ that - along with SQ - makes up Q-reality. Contentious or not it's plain. Matt: > What you are pointing to is an ambiguity in Pirsig's terms. Quality > is supposedly different from Dynamic Quality What do you think is the logic behind the ambiguity of a Quality different from Dynamic Quality? > ..... but when you use the same terms ("ultimate reality," "immediate > experience," "undefined") to describe both, it becomes difficult to > tell how to tell the difference between the two (I talked about this in > my review of a paper Anthony wrote for the Essay Forum). Sure I use those terms because Pirsig in LILA (on James) uses them and if mentioning Quality by words is what soils it and necessitates an even higher Quality, that one is soiled once written about and another one and over it is needed ... ad absurdum. > You're taking a definite stand, on both the ill-fated nature of the > ambiguity (which, if I'm not mistaken, Pirsig deliberately wanted) and > the way out (it was a mistake to have two terms at all). But your > mode of enunciating your position has almost always, and here I take > comfort in what seems to be a majority opinion, been very weird and > difficult to understand. The Copernican cosmology's premises was "very weird and difficult to understand" from the Ptolemaian cosmology's premises. This argument is invalid.. Come Matt, you have cast yourself in the arbiter's role as elevated above out petty argumentation. Now I call upon you to be the jury Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
