On Saturday 7 February 2009 11:33 PM Bo writes to Matt: <snip>
> Pirsig's "mission" in ZAMM was to trace the roots of what he saw as > the loss of Quality (he had already had the Quality epiphany) in > contemporary USA (and the West in general) and found it in SOM > which origin he tracked to the said Greek thinkers. He also spotted > the last times when Quality ruled to be the Greek Mythological era. > And then he went on to write a new metaphysics based on the Quality > as Reality's ground. But this necessarily had to become a dualism - > there are no other realities - and it's here the big wrong step is taken, > but as I understand that you refuse any more talk about that .... Hi Bo and Matt, Bo, in many of your statements you propose a triad: MOQ DQ/SQ. As a basis for metaphysics why not keep the triad, DQ/SQ and the umbrella MOQ? This is manifestation. As for the order I prefer 7 steps with the eighth being a repeat of 1 at doubled intensity. Joe On 2/7/09 11:33 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Matt > > Thu Feb 5. > > Bo before: >> What do you think is the logic behind the ambiguity of a Quality different >> from Dynamic Quality? > > Matt now: >> I think Pirsig wanted to have an unfolding monism that, on the one hand, >> eliminated the Platonic sense of a reality that had intrinsic joints > > As in the "theism" thread I wonder how difficult and subtle you > (people) can possible make something so simple and straightforward. > That Pirsig wanted to bring Socrates, Plato, Aristotle & CO, who were > the instigators of SOM, to "justice" is elementary. As it is that the > SOM has ONE intrinsic joint - the S/O. > >> that needed to found, > > ?? > >> but on the other hand dealt with Parmenides' denial of change -- this >> monism evolves. > > Pirsig's "mission" in ZAMM was to trace the roots of what he saw as > the loss of Quality (he had already had the Quality epiphany) in > contemporary USA (and the West in general) and found it in SOM > which origin he tracked to the said Greek thinkers. He also spotted > the last times when Quality ruled to be the Greek Mythological era. > And then he went on to write a new metaphysics based on the Quality > as Reality's ground. But this necessarily had to become a dualism - > there are no other realities - and it's here the big wrong step is taken, > but as I understand that you refuse any more talk about that .... > > However, Pirsigs tracking of SOM (what necessarily must become the > intellectual level in the final MOQ, just like the said mythological must > become the social) I have no objections about, i's totally convincing. > A magnificent achievement. The search for eternal principles, > meaning something transcending the mythological "explanation" of > existence, you know Chronos (time) arriving and the unfolding of the > god realm. Then the cosmologists who suggested various elements > as reality's ground, this in contrast to "immaterial" elements: > Heraclitus' "Change", and Parmenides "nous" resembling our mind, > but this is still pre-S/O times so "fire" was not more objective than > "change" and "nous" were subjective. > > What it all boiled down to was a dualism based on something > perishable in contrast to something NOT perishable. After centuries it > emerged with Socrates as "Apparent/True", with Plato it became > "Shadows/Ideas", with Aristotle "Form/Substance". These may look as > contrasting among themselves, but these are facets of the same > "fleeting, temporal, seeming, illusory - slash - permanent, eternal, > real" and represented a total different existence from the (social) one > it replaced and through more twists and turns ended as our SOM. > >> The ambiguity is induced to suggest a basic, dual perspective with >> which we can view the world -- > > As said there are only dualities. Even if "theism" like to imagine a pre- > existing God who created the world, there is no God without the world > and vice versa. It is a dualism, and all efforts to create monisms is > futile. > >> we can view it as all one thing for certain purposes, the main one of >> which is to help remind us that the current plurality we view the world >> for most common day purposes might be shaped differently. > > Waiting for the smoke to clear ;-) > > Bo > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
