Mati and Platt
On 26 Feb.Mati wrote:
(on DMB's harangue),
> I read this and Bodvar's response and I was very interested in your
> line of thinking. I won't necessarily take side, other to say that
> Bodvar's responses (as well as yours) always make me think a bit deeper
> about MOQ/SOM/ and intellect and what it means.
Modesty forbids me to thank you and Platt (too profusely) for
taking a neutral stand about my effort to prevent SOM's "intellect"
from polluting MOQ's 4th. level and thereby destroy the MOQ.
Mati:
> I have long advocated that getting to the bottom of this question about
> intellect is and I believe that some day we will get there.
"This question" is that inside SOM - also known as the mind/matter
metaphysics - the "intellect" term means the subject that surveys
the world and if this "mind-intellect" is transferred into the MOQ as
its 4th. level, it's done for. The said level becomes mind-like with
the lower levels becoming world-like, and this has happened up
through this discussion, the 4th. level is the place where all other
levels exist as intellectual patterns. Exactly as in (idealist) SOM
where the world exist as mind-patterns.
And Pirsig seems on the same track.
Intellectuality occurs when these customs as well as
biological and inorganic patterns are designated with a
sign that stands for them and these signs are manipulated
independently of the patterns they stand for. "Intellect" can
then be defined very loosely as the level of independently
manipulable signs. Grammar, logic and mathematics can
be described as the rules of this sign manipulation.
See, social, inorganic and biological values are made into
intellectual "signs" and "manipulated independently ...etc" exactly
as SOM sees language as an abstract shadow of the real world.
All this go against the very grain of the real MOQ that has
relegated the S/O - mind/matter - distinction as intellect's value.
I.e. this is all INSIDE the 4th. level .
Thus (in this context) ".....Intellectuality occurred when humankind
discovered that language is manipulation of abstract symbols that
stands for a concrete reality.
This is just one aspect of intellect's countless subject/object pairs,
yet all are reflections of the old Greek thinkers' once newfangled
idea of one ETERNAL (objective) reality versus one PERISHABLE
(subjective) reality.
Enough for now.
Bodvar
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