From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [MD] Quine and the Linguistic Turn
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:45:25 -0600
Matt said to dmb:Well, first, let's be clear that all the classical pragmatists
are dead, which is why I wanted a new handle. Second, I got that idea about
large cross-sections of philosophers (not just self-identified pragmatists)
because of chapters titled "Turning Back the Linguistic Turn" (as in Barry
Allen's Knowledge and Civilization) and of books like Timothy Williamson's The
Philosophy of Philosophy, where he states in the first chapter that one of his
goals is to "ask how far the [linguistic] turn has been, or should be,
reversed." But I also got the idea from you, since you've been very critical,
to put it politely, of my use of Rorty, and the methods and outlook I tend to
present--largely attributing it to the pernicious effects of the linguistic
turn (through logical positivism). I thought I was being pretty judicious to
your side of the street in terming the analytic movement "the rage of
language-obsession" (not that I identify at all with analytic philosophy). On
the other hand, maybe I've misidentified you and/or Hildebrand (though not
Allen or Williamson).dmb replies:Hmmm. Firstly, you're suffering from a
misconception if you think all the classical pragmatists are dead. I'd call
myself a classical pragmatist and its my assertion that Pirsig is too. Living
academic philosophers such as Hildebrand, Rosenthal and Stuhr describe
themselves as classical pragmatist precisely to distinguish themselves from
neo-pragmatists, especially Rorty. Further, this distinction is not predicated
on whether or not one adopts the insights of the linguistic turn nor upon
whether or not one looks to the dead originators of pragmatism. All
pragmatists, more or less, share those things in common. The contemporary
philosophers who describe themselves as classical pragmatists insist that
radical empiricism is a crucial ingredient. The neo-pragmatists don't hitch
their brand to radical empiricism. And its no accident that our disagreement
revolves around that too. I suppose the difference has a lot to do with wether
or not one comes to pragmatism by way of the analytic tradition or not. The two
positions (neo and classical) aren't all that far apart but I'd bet the paths
by which the two sides arrived come from very different directions. Pirsig, for
example, confesses that he was underwhelmed by the Vienna Circle types and
never really saw much value in the logical analysis of language or as a
handmaiden to science. Like James and Dewey, he's approaching this, at least in
part, as a mystic. This is very different from the approach of a positivist.
Matt said to dmb:...You've shown over the last two years a growing appreciation
for just what is and isn't good in various philosophies, a subtler view of the
philosophical landscape and what can and cannot be appropriated for your own
uses. I've appreciated the shift, but I'm not sure you have in your
relationship to me, and I don't think any of our outstanding disagreements have
become any less obscure (at least to me).
dmb says:Thanks. I certainly hope I've learned some things. And like I tried to
explain above, I think our differences are quite real and are reflected in the
current distinction between classical and neo-pragmatists. At the risk of
sounding smug, it seems that my academic efforts have very much confirmed my
original hunch. It seems I'm far from being the only who thinks it matters
whether or not one adopts radical empiricism and I've discovered how to
elaborate and better explain the difference. I mean, to put it simply, our
dispute reflected the debate between two already named schools of thought. I
think we should both be flattered by that. It serves as a reality check and
puts us in the same context as a current, living debate. Ouch! I just strained
my arm patting myself on the back.
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