Marsha said to Krimel: Calling my statements "bitching" and "silly" doesn't address the issues I raise. Bacon is a man who stated that Nature needed to be tortured for her to give up her secrets. Come on...
dmb says: Yea, come on Krimel. The myth of the mad scientist has been in the popular imagination for a couple centuries now. From Frankenstein's monster to Darth Vader, the fears inspired by science and technology have taken the shape of monsters and villians. Even Kafkaesque nightmares about inhuman bureaucracies get at this same fear of faceless, mechanical rationality. Its no use pretending you don't know what Marsha is talking about. [Krimel] In Bacon's time torturing Nature to give up her secrets probably sounded like some kind of attractive revenge fantasy. Periodic waves of plague and pox cleansed the population of Europe and society was largely at the mercy of Mother Nature. It's funny because often your figurative reading of the Mythos seems as hopeless distorted as those who read it literally. There are lots of mad scientist myths but there are also myths about scientist as savior. Or more typically the scientist as the wise old man who guides and assists the hero on his quest: Fringe, the Lone Gunman of X-Files, Dr. Who and House come to mind. Reading the Mythos is no better than reading tea leaves; you see in it what you want to see. [dmb] In the case of genetically modified crops, for example, the corporations have introduced seeds from which the farmer can not grow the next generation of seeds. That way the farmer has to buy new seeds each season. In the interest of profit, they've engineered a dead seed. What if this artificial mutation spreads to other seed-bearing plants or even all seed-bearing plants. What would be left on earth? Not us. The chances are probably very small but with consequences like that very small is way too big. [Krimel] Reading your posts often reminds me that the biggest fear is of ignorance. How could a gene for sterility spread? How could any gene spread from one species to another. No wonder you are fearful. This really goes against my growing conviction that ignorance is bliss. But here you are echoing Marsha, placing the blame for bad legal decisions and economic greed at the feet of scientists. [dmb] Its a cultural problem. Its bigger than science. Its about a scientific world view, materialism, reductionism and efficiency at the expense of quality. Its about being overwhelmed and out of balance. Its about loving power and control rather than peace of mind. [Krimel] The real heart of the matter is that science is an easy target for romantics because it is the dynamic force behind the acceleration of change in society and has been for the past 300 years. The romantic solution usually sounds like nothing so much as Freudian regression. You are right this is an overall cultural problem and the cultural systems that should be helping to create static latches or to give us guidance in coping with the pace of change have failed utterly. Philosophers, theologians, artists... in short, the romantics like yourself have had little to offer but hand wringing and finger pointing. [dmb] Pretending that Marsha is just making this stuff up won't fly around here. Its the problem for which ZAMM is the solution, you big snarky square. She's giving you all kinds of clues but you just stick your fingers in your ears and sing "La La La". Its a dern shame. [Krimel] I have pretended nothing of the sort. The problem which ZMM was aimed at was romantic nutcases having their head buried in the sand or whistling in the dark. What we really fear is what we don't understand. I guess that make the world a really scary place for you, Dave. It certainly explains your ongoing need to construct a philosophical thumb to suck. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
