[Andrew]
The problem with your opinion is that the destruction of culture is a valid
military objective. Destroy the culture and there is nothing left for the
people to fight for. Ask any Jew.
[Arlo]
Not sure what this tangent is supposed to mean? Are you saying the "valid
military objective" of the Chinese is to destroy Tibet's culture? I'm not sure
how this changes what I, or the Lama, said. Tibet faces real aggression, and
should respond to that in kind. Extending this to the general hatred for all
people of Chinese descent is immoral.
[Andrew]
Ask any Jew: Was the holocaust strictly a military operation? What military
threat were the Germans targeting?
Is it immoral? ( general hatred ). Certainly it is socially unacceptable to
many, but perhaps it is necessary for biological success.
####
[Andrew]
You hold Tibetans ( for example ) to an impossibly high moral standard.
[Arlo]
Higher than yours, apparently, whether that is "impossibly high" is something
I'd disagree with.
[Andrew]
It is not necessarily mine, Mr. Ad-Hominem. Disagree but give examples please.
Where is the historical precedent?
###
[Andrew]
Consider the people of Dresden or Hiroshima and the concept of "total war".
What the fuck did they do to us? Did we bomb them with brotherly love and
understanding?
[Arlo]
Yikes, again I wonder how a "smart" guy such as yourself is able to miss such
an obvious point. No, we did not bomb Hiroshima with brotherly love, we
responded to a military aggressor with the goal of defeating them. If this
extended to the belief that all Japanese people are inferior and we should
"hate" them all just by virtue of their being Japanese, then this would have
been immoral.
[Andrew]
Yikes, again you miss my point. Dresden and Hiroshima had no military value. I
am giving examples of total warfare. Total warfare is aimed at the people, not
at military targets. Doesn't this at least require some form of implicit
xenophobia ( yellow peril, for example ) in order to be implemented? Or can or
should war be conducted without these methods.
###
[Arlo had asked]
Would you say that violence or even "hate" against Americans of Japanese
descent following Pearl Harbor was moral or even justifiable?
[Andrew answered]
You are giving me the choice to either agree with you or discredit myself. Go
figure. Replace Japanese and Pearl Harbor with Muslims and 911. Think about
this one and then ask me again.
[Arlo]
Easy. The violence and hatred towards all Muslims after 9/11 was immoral and
unjustifiable. That many ideologues pander to that fear is immoral. Same with
the hate and violence against Japanese-Americans following Pearl Harbor. Gee, I
can answer all three. You can't (or won't, since you'd rather obfuscate than
deal with being contradictory). Go figure.
[Andrew]
You view the world through a different prism than I do. Pray for peace and a
wise and loving shepherd.
###
[Andrew]
The problem here is that hate and "xenophobia" are not intellectual values.
They are biological values. We should not discredit biological quality when
reality calls for biological action.
[Arlo]
So your "logic" is that whenever we face a "biological" threat, hatred and
xenophobia towards all people of that ethnicity are moral responses? If I am
robbed by a white man, I would be morally justified in hating and proclaiming
the inferiority of the white race?
[Andrew]
If the money prevents your family from being thrown out on the street and you
can't talk or shame whitey from robbing you, and if adopting feelings of
general hatred towards whites is necessary for you to muster the biological
nerve to defend yourself now and against possible future attacks, then yes,
proclaim away. Ask any black panther. Ask any Ron Kuby.
I suggest that biological action is sometimes necessary. Seems to be. Biology
is not concerned with morality.
###
[Andrew]
I see that you have mastered Google. Good work.
[Arlo]
I'm sorry, I know how much you dislike actual examples. Sorry, I'll try to be
as groundless and generalizing as you'd like me to be. I mean, I know it must
suck to have a spokesperson for very people you are talking about discredit
what you are saying. We should just ignore it, yeah, or ridicule me for
pointing it out, that's a good strategy. Yeah.
[Andrew]
Sounds like a plan, Stan.
###
[Andrew]
Perhaps the Dalai Lama is not the last word on Tibet any more than Mr. Pirsig
is the last word on quality.
[Arlo]
I'd say he is far closer to the "last word" on Tibet than you are. So I side
with him on the matter.
[Andrew]
Unlike yourself, I do not claim to be an authority on anything. I'm just a
curious man with a wooden leg looking for a nice soft shoulder to cry on.
###
[Andrew]
My original question transposed: How will truth and justice ( intellectual
quality, social quality ) triumph when the people ( biological quality ) who
have spent aeons evolving towards these ends are gradually displaced and
ultimately wiped off the earth ( inorganic quality ) ?
[Arlo]
You could ask the same question of Lakota culture (or any given Native American
culture). I don't know. But if the only way, as you seem to suggest, for Tibet
to save itself is to fall into xenophobia and hatred for everyone, everywhere
of Chinese descent, then that is a perversion of the very intellectual quality
they have built up. Maybe many feel that its better to die holding onto
superior intellectual quality patterns, then sink to immoral behavior of the
very kind your philosophy stands against.
[Andrew]
Again, it is not my philosophy, it is my question. Quit trying to shame me into
submission. Pull my finger.
Maybe many feel as you do, Arlo, but I doubt many of them are Tibetan.
Maybe you are frightened of biological reality. Our pretty little world won't
last forever. The groceries are going to run out one day. Then what?
###
[Andrew]
I ask you and I ask the Dalai Lama.
[Arlo]
I think the Lama already answered this (for example in the text I provided).
Sorry if the answer is simply over your head.
[Andrew]
I see that you don't object to me putting you on the same level as the Dalai
Lama. Lol.
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