[Andrew]
Ask any Jew: Was the holocaust strictly a military operation? What military
threat were the Germans targeting?
Is it immoral? ( general hatred ). Certainly it is socially unacceptable to
many, but perhaps it is necessary for biological success.
[Arlo]
Um... you can't possibly be this stupid. Really, jokes over. The Holocaust was
not a military operation, no, it was genocide fueled by xenophobia. The
response to this threat was a military operation, which if I recall did not
include pronouncing the inferiority and subhumanness of the German people. Had
the Jews responded with a counter-Holocaust, then that response would have been
immoral as well.
[Andrew]
Hey buddy, the holocaust was only discovered AFTER the military response to
Germany's aggression. According to you we did not dehumanize the Germans, but
were nevertheless able to drop bombs and kill hundreds of thousands of their
people who were not direct combatants. How so?
The Jews responded with Israel. Consider their methods and the justifications
for their methods. I am referring to the Israeli concept of "group punishment".
But I guess the jokes over.
[Andrew]
It is not necessarily mine, Mr. Ad-Hominem. Disagree but give examples please.
Where is the historical precedent?
[Arlo]
Funny. You can make snide comments and that's okay. I return the serve, and I'm
"Mr. Ad-Hominem". Nice tactic.
You are asking me for an example in history of where a people were under
biological assault (war, Holocaust, etc.) and DID NOT respond with a campaign
of xenophobia or promote general hatred and violence towards all members of a
given ethnicity?
[Andrew]
Yes sir and I'm still waiting for you to Google me an answer.
[Andrew]
Total warfare is aimed at the people, not at military targets. Doesn't this at
least require some form of implicit xenophobia ( yellow peril, for example ) in
order to be implemented?
[Arlo]
No, it does not. There was no justification for violence towards
Japanese-Americans as part of our military campaign. There is no justification
for the pandering to fear of Muslims as part of any military actions we need to
take.
[Andrew]
You know I'm not talking about Japanese-Americans. I am speaking of Hiroshima,
for example. Answer this.
[Andrew]
Or can or should war be conducted without these methods.
[Arlo]
I would think intelligent people can understand a threat and deal with it, as
opposed to promoting a general hatred and fear of a given ethnicity. Sorry this
seems to escape you.
[Andrew]
It certainly does not escape me that there are many idealists in the world. I
just think that it is naive to think we can all just work things out on paper
or at some sort of round table.
[Andrew]
You view the world through a different prism than I do. Pray for peace and a
wise and loving shepherd.
[Arlo]
Yeah, I would say I certainly view the world differently than you do. While I
pray for peace, I am prepared to wage war, I am just able to discern doing what
I must to protect myself, and advancing notions of inferiority or hatred aimed
at an entire ethnicity or nationality. Again, sorry that escapes you.
[Andrew]
You go, Arlo! How have you prepared to wage war? Can you loan me an ICBM? My
neighbors dog won't stop yapping at night. I'm simply asking a question, numb
nuts.
[Andrew]
If the money prevents your family from being thrown out on the street and you
can't talk or shame whitey from robbing you, and if adopting feelings of
general hatred towards whites is necessary for you to muster the biological
nerve to defend yourself now and against possible future attacks, then yes,
proclaim away. Ask any black panther. Ask any Ron Kuby.
[Arlo]
So you think the Black Panther's xenophobia is justified? Too bad, I'd say you
are pandering to very low, immoral fears in order to justify pronouncements of
superiority. Also, pity the man who can only be moved to defend himself by
proclaiming the entire ethnicity of his assailant is inferior.
[Andrew]
I'm not pandering. I'm observing. It was a dumb example, Arlo. But you are good
at that. "By any means necessary". You just won't admit you admire them.
[Andrew]
Unlike yourself, I do not claim to be an authority on anything. I'm just a
curious man with a wooden leg looking for a nice soft shoulder to cry on.
[Arlo]
Praytell, what have I claimed "authority" on? I'm just a person expressing his
opinions, backing them up with historical examples and at times turning to
those involved in the issues being discussed for insight an outsider could not
have.
[Andrew]
Maybe many feel as you do, Arlo, but I doubt many of them are Tibetan.
[Arlo]
You "doubt" this? Based on what? Since the Lama has proclaimed the same
position I espouse, and he is the voice for many, many Tibetans, what evidence
do you have to the contrary? Are their Tibetans who have come to hate all
things Chinese? I would say very likely. But from what I read from Tibet's
highest spokesperson, the immoral hatred you seem to think is justifiable and
moral is something Tibetan's are not succumbing to.
[Andrew]
I'm not claiming it is moral. I say it may not require intellectual
justification to be "right". Your quote is an old one. Things have changed. Not
all tibetans are monks. Tibetans will kick your Chinese ass, arlo.
[Andrew]
Maybe you are frightened of biological reality. Our pretty little world won't
last forever. The groceries are going to run out one day. Then what?
[Arlo]
Then I hope I die a better man than you, then I hope I am able to continue
discerning between threats and extending hatred and fear towards an entire
ethnicity.
[Andrew]
This is pointless. You don't get it. Have a nice day.
[Andrew]
I see that you don't object to me putting you on the same level as the Dalai
Lama. Lol.
[Arlo]
I didn't realize that directing a question to us both was a sarcastic inference
that I am on the same level as the Lama. I am not, and would never suggest or
allow such a thing to be implied.
Tell me something, since you seem to feel pretty feel confident that xenophobia
is a moral and justifiable response to biological threats, is it ever NOT
justified or moral? The Germans, for example, proclaimed the Jews a "biological
threat" to their nation, does that justify their xenophobia? The Holocaust? The
campaign of fear (using rats depicting Jews in posters)?
You mentioned the Black Panters, is their xenophobia justifiable and moral? The
KKK or Aryan Brotherhood? Al Qaeda?
[Andrew]
You would never let such a thing be implied? Take some Prozac, fella. It'll be
o.k.
What is justified and what is moral are two different things. As you have
previously stated on another thread, "It is contextual".
Let's forget about all these examples. I question that a valid morality can be
had for free, like a mathematical lemma, after all the hard metaphysical work
has been done. It seems cheap to me.
Have a nice day, Bubba.
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