Steve said: ... I'm glad that DMB has given them useful distinguishing labels: empirical and historical. Matt replied: This distinction, then, might be a profitable place to spend some time exploring and articulating. ... For my part, I'm not sure what DMB exactly meant when he distinguished between the two kinds of _claims_ (aren't empirical claims claims about what's happened in real time, as it were?), and I'm not sure what you mean by distinguishing between two kinds of _perspectives_ (wouldn't viewing the world as experiential commit one to viewing it as an historical sequence of experiences?). The two dialectical moves are opaque to me and I'm not sure what else they would commit one to, nor what else they would enable one to do.
dmb says: I don't think there's anything fancy about the distinction. I'm only talking about the difference between radical empiricism and the theory of evolution. They're just different disciplines, epistemology and evolution. I use terms like "pre-intellectual" to mean "pure experience". In that case I'm talking radical empiricism and referring to the cutting edge of experience in a sort of psychological sense. But Bo, for example, has taken it as a reference to pre-Socratic Greece or the MOQ's social level. That's a case of mixing empiricism with cultural evolution. Just add milk and you have a crazy cake, a dish well worth avoiding. In radical empiricism and in the MOQ, reality and experience are the same thing. But this reality is DQ or pure experience or pre-intellectual experience, which is undefinable. This is what's added to the theory of evolution, but once we start talking about that we've left the epistemological descriptions behind and have now shifted to an already existing theory which includes the idea of a pre-existing material reality unfolding over billions of years. This is just a whole different deal. Especially in a system that says all these ideas are just ideas, just analogues. That's all I mean by saying empirical claims are different from historical claims. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
