Arlo said to Platt: Who was that "lesser storm" contrasting? "Liberals" and "conservatives". An upheaval "not so great" as the one between socialism and fascism, but a difference only of degree, according to Pirsig. [AND] I mean, both fascism and conservatism are programs for the dominance of society over intellect. Both were (are) aggressively anti-intellectual. Both were (are) aggressively nationalistic.
dmb says: Right. Basically, fascism is conservatism with the volume turned up in the same way that a very liberal person could rightly be called a socialist. Understanding where the various ideologies fit in relation to each other doesn't require any metaphysics, however, and apparently this is just something Platt never learned at school. Platt is among the 22% of Americans who say they admire Sarah Palin and he thinks Jonah Goldberg's conflation of liberalism and fascism is right on. Anyone who looks at the MOQ's political analysis through eyes like that will very likely see something other than what it actually means. These basic misconceptions, and the extreme positions they lead to, will only be compounded by adding a evolutionary metaphysics to them. I mean, the guy needs some history lessons first. I mean, what's the point in debating the MOQ's analysis with a guy who doesn't even understand the basic political categories and terms? I'm glad that you dispute him. I'm glad you put textual evidence on the record against him. Anything that seems like nonsense should be challenged, especially in a place like this. But I'd like to suggest that this task would be more fun for you if you just make a mental note to yourself. That note says, "Platt is unpersuaded by evidence or reason." If you go in to the debate knowing that hell will freeze over before he ever changes his mind, it'll keep the frustration level down a bit. As I see it, anything else is simply an unrealistic expectation. You see, on the continuum of flexibility, just to the right of stability, there is rigidity, frozen solid, diamond-like hardness and then there's Platt. It just ain't gonna happen. Thanks for the kind words about Pirsig's kind words, Arlo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Communism and socialism, programs for intellectual control over > society, were confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a > program for the social control of intellect." (Pirsig) > > "Phaedrus thought that no other historical or political analysis > explains the enormity of these forces as clearly as does the > Metaphysics of Quality. The gigantic power of socialism and fascism, > which have overwhelmed this century, is explained by a conflict of > levels of evolution." (Pirsig) > > "In the United States the economic and social upheaval was not so > great as in Europe, but Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal, > nevertheless, became the center of a lesser storm between social and > intellectual forces." (Pirsig) _________________________________________________________________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
