[Platt] "Conservatism" doesn't appear in the quotes at all. [Arlo reposts] Who was that "lesser storm" contrasting? "Liberals" and "conservatives". An upheaval "not so great" as the one between socialism and fascism, but a difference only of degree, according to Pirsig. [AND] I mean, both fascism and conservatism are programs for the dominance of society over intellect. Both were (are) aggressively anti-intellectual. Both were (are) aggressively nationalistic.
"Communism and socialism, programs for intellectual control over society, were confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a program for the social control of intellect." (Pirsig) "Phaedrus thought that no other historical or political analysis explains the enormity of these forces as clearly as does the Metaphysics of Quality. The gigantic power of socialism and fascism, which have overwhelmed this century, is explained by a conflict of levels of evolution." (Pirsig) "In the United States the economic and social upheaval was not so great as in Europe, but Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal, nevertheless, became the center of a lesser storm between social and intellectual forces." (Pirsig) [Arlo] Arlo asks again. So WHO was this LESSER STORM between. What were the forces between "intellectual control of society" and "social domination of intellect" that were analogous to the socialism-fascism conflict going on in Europe? Answer that. Go ahead. The conflict in the US was "liberalism" versus "conservatism". Liberalism, like socialism, championed the intellectual domination of society. Conservatism, like fascism, champions the social domination of intellect. Its kinda obvious to everyone else. Its why the same anti-intellectual forces that go rabid about "radical professors" today went after Pirsig back when he was teaching in Montana... using the SAME TERM... "radical professor". Its why BOTH conservatism and fascism are aggressively anti-intellectual and aggressively nationalistic. Its why BOTH rage endlessly against the academy and the "media". I mean, who do you think the Nazi's biggest "bugbears" were? Why the "liberal media" and "radical liberal professors". Go figure that these are the same major bugbears for conservatives today. Nonetheless, as Pirsig pointed out, the modern trend in America is a slow-drift back to Victorianism, to social domination of intellect. Now, WHO do you think is behind that? Liberals? Socialists? Commies? That makes no sense, since all three of these are "programs for the intellectual domination of society". Who does that leave leading America retrogressively towards social domination of intellect? Why conservatives, of course. I mean, why do you think conservatism has bedded the radical fundamentalist movement in this country? Because this "base" wants nothing BUT the domination of social patterns over intellect. Common goals. Again I ask. Where does Pirsig state, even ONCE, that the moral superiority of intellect over society is in any way dependent on correcting its "defect"? Where does he say ONCE that until such time as this defect is corrected that the moral solution is to keep society in dominance of intellect? As to the original point I commented on, which you've grossly obfuscated, Pirsig himself is an intellectual who rationalized the value of intellect, a charge you moronically tried to condemn DMB with. Like Pirsig, DMB has the vision to see that the solution via the MOQ is to begin with non-S/O intellectuals, like Pirsig and the early hippies and beats, and other non-S/O thinkers to do this day (hell, including Dusenberry), who don't merely pursue an anti-intellectual agenda, but pursue an expansion of intellect, a new spiritual rationality, to correct S/O intellect's flaw. The aim is not to subjugate intellect to society, but to expand its vision. This is what the MOQ is, where the hippies were going, and where our vision should be directed. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
