Greeting John, Here are the words of one Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:
"Causes and results are infinite in number and variety. Everything affects everything. In this universe, when one thing changes, everything changes. Hence the great power of man in changing the world by changing himself.", of course, I think patterns, not things. But this is how I tend to see improvement in the world happening by Quality decisions. How does one make quality decisions? By consciously being Quality. For what it's worth, Marsha On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:04 PM, John Carl wrote: >> >> >> "My personal feeling is that this is how any further improvement of the >> world will be done: by individuals making Quality decisions and that´s all. >> > > Well personal feelings aside, we know intellectually that the only way the > world ever improves is by communal action. There isn't a darn thing that > changes when one lone individual makes Quality decisions, unless those > decisions redirect a social relationship towards Quality. The society can > be quite small, but world-class improvements have to be performed by > world-class societies. > > > >> God, I don´t want to have any more enthusiasm for big programs full of >> social planning for big masses of people that leave individual Quality >> out. > > > Yeah, me neither. But sometimes you can't help yourself. Enthusiasm > bubbles up from beyond, evidently. Where does enthusiasm come from? Same > place as hypothesis's I guess, and over which we have as little control. > > > >> These can be left alone for a while. > > > Great, sure. you bet. How long? Forever and ever? I mean, this was > written when? I remember there was a lot of this enthusiasm floating around > back in the 70's for big social programs, mostly leading nowhere. So does > that mean we can just do away with it completely? Because it seems to me, > Mr. Pirsig, that since those days your individualistic stance has gained > wide hold, and the concommitant drop in communal interaction has just driven > people to ever more isolation and getting their cultural needs met through > mediated-techno placebos which makes 'em more isolated, which drives them > more inward, which.... > > > >> There´s a place for them > > > > I definitely agree! > > > >> but >> they´ve got to be built on a foundation of Quality within the individuals >> involved. > > > > I agree there too. But since that is an individualistic effort - Quality > within individuals involved - it makes the whole thing hopeless because of > the problems I outlined above. I mean, I'm perfectly content to stand back > and let individuals evolve their own Quality. But the dark powers in charge > seem to want to degrade individuals in order to get them ignorant and > pliable and fond of McDonalds and happy in WalMart. So the bad guys recruit > and the good guys shut up. How long do you think this pattern can continue > before we're all totally screwed? > > > >> We´ve had that individual Quality in the past, exploited it as a >> natural resource without knowing it, and now it´s just about depleted. >> Everyone´s just about out of gumption. And I think it´s about time to >> return to the rebuilding of this American resource...individual worth. >> > > > There used to be a great pride in the basis of morality for capitalism. Our > enemy,the godless communists, failed, we claimed, through exactly this > means of moral superiority. Adam Smith's theories only work when populated > by moral people. Morals were our strength, and you'd think a book that > enquired into them would be a valuable resource, but unfortunately, Rigel > had a point when he claimed that freeing up people to think about their > morals and choose them has had some surprisingly negative effects. Mostly > what they decide makes a Quality decision, is that which rewards the > egoistic selfish desires. > > I don't blame ZAMM for that movement, I blame the social media (tv) not the > intellectual (books). > > > > >> There are political reactionaries who´ve been saying something close to >> this for years. I´m not one of them, but to the extent they´re talking >> about >> real individual worth and not just an excuse for giving more money to >> the rich, they´re right. We do need a return to individual integrity, self- >> reliance and old-fashioned gumption. We really do." >> > > > This gumption and real individual worth are created by interaction with > community - a social context and by stories told to the young. > > The current generation has been given over to central programming from > birth, and since this generation can't even imagine the world you and I are > old enough to remember, and since this generation is suckled at an > electronic teat that has NO motivation for teaching self-reliance, integrity > or gumption, (who'd buy cosmetics for men if we did that?) I'd say we need > new words to help us in our crucial hour. > > >> "Self-reliance." Not a word you often hear from the ruling elite >> (Hollywood, politicians, academics and the major media) these days. >> >> Platt > > > There ya go. Platt's got it exactly right. Just add in big business > board rooms as part of the evil consortium, and you've got the whole > picture. If you describe Liberal and Conservative, I see a two-headed > giant that every time one is attacked, the other just gets stronger and > the giant gets bigger. > > John Carl the fan of the Grinch > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _____________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
