Bodvar :
The MOQ created the Quality Reality just like Phaedrus said the
Newton's Theory created the Gravity Reality. I maintain that Pirsig
backed down from Phaedrus radical assertion and presented the
MOQ as a mere intellectual (in a SOM sense) idea-pattern that won't
alter the REAL world. You (all) happily embrace this watered-down
version of the MOQ, only I hold Phaedrus' "torch" burning.
Ron:
What Pirsig actually says is this
on the subject of "MOQ as a mere intellectual (in a SOM sense)
idea-pattern that won't alter the REAL world." Pirsig explains the distinction
and it has nothing to do with intellectual ideas and the notion of a REAL
world, he makes the distinction between two types of EXPERIENCE.
"The Metaphysics of Quality subscribes to what is called empiricism. It claims
that all legitimate human knowledge arises from the senses or by thinking about
what the senses provide."
Get that Bo? he goes on....read carefully..
"Most empiricists deny the validity of any knowledge
gained through imagination, authority, tradition, or purely theoretical
reasoning. They regard fields such as art, morality, religion, and
metaphysics as unverifiable. The Metaphysics of Quality varies from
this by saying that the values of art and morality and even religious
mysticism are verifiable, and that in the past they have been excluded
for metaphysical reasons, not empirical reasons. They have been excluded
because of the metaphysical assumption that all the universe is composed
of subjects and objects and anything that can't be classified as a subject
or an object isn't real. There is no empirical evidence for this assumption
at all. It is just an assumption."
Ron:
Now for the big piece of understanding..ready? here it is:
"There's a principle in physics that if a thing can't be distinguished from
anything else it doesn't exist. To this the Metaphysics of Quality adds a
second principle: if a thing has no value it isn't distinguished from anything
else. Then, putting the two together, a thing that has no value does not exist.
The thing has not created the value. The value has created the thing. When
it is seen that value is the front edge of experience, there is no problem
for empiricists here. It simply restates the empiricists' belief that
experience is the starting point of all reality. The only problem is for
a subject-object metaphysics that calls itself empiricism."
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