Bodvar to Andre: The MOQ created the Quality Reality just like Phaedrus said the Newton's Theory created the Gravity Reality.
Andre: I'll start nitpicking Bodvar, if you don't mind. They'll expose my doubts or misgivings about your interpretation of the MoQ. Look at the above statement carefully...'just like Phaedrus said the Newton's Theory created the Gravity Reality'...has the MoQ created the Quality Reality. That's right!! The MoQ THEORY created the Quality Reality! It is the highest intellectual quality statement ever presented to the world. It can be tested and repeated over and over again and each time MoQ's explanatory power will show the same results. And what the gravity theory has done for 'the world' the Quality theory will do for 'the world' perhaps 100, if not more, times better. continued: I maintain that Pirsig backed down from Phaedrus radical assertion and presented the MOQ as a mere intellectual (in a SOM sense) idea-pattern that won't alter the REAL world. Andre: What is the REAL world? For me, the REAL world is the world as described,represented and experienced through the MoQ. continue: You (all) happily embrace this watered-down version of the MOQ, only I hold Phaedrus' "torch" burning. Andre: See my first comment. continue: This is the "silly" Pirsig who, after having stated the true "no one living in an ordered universe can avoid metaphysics", lapes back into the arch-somish, Aristotelian, notion of metaphysics as a subjective theory ABOUT an objective reality. Andre: I read this differently Bodvar. Pirsig 'did it anyway' because of his reluctance to define Quality (the ineffable) but did it because you have to come up with something better rather than just criticising (SOM). I cannot 'see' the 'lapse back' and certainly not the subjective over objective. A thought just occurred to me: the chautauqua leading to the Quality insight was ON the motorbike, (inorganic PoV's) the MoQ, the development of Quality into the DQ/SQ was done INSIDE the boat.(inorganic PoV's). Don't know what this means yet. continued: To start the creation of a S/O-less reality this way is self defeating and hence MOQ's problems. Andre: Again, I fail to 'see' this self-defeating angle. continued: OK, let's say everything is illusion - that realitys building block is illusion - well then you have a "Metaphysics of Illusion" (MOI). Andre: >From a dynamic point of view there are no subjects and no objects. There is no 'static' Quality. All is Dynamic. And, as far as I understand the Zen circle,the return to the static is made 'complete by perceiving Dynamic Quality via static quality patterns. Or, to turn this around: experiencing static quality patterns as manifestations of Dynamic Quality. This is what I meant. (Does Lila have quality?) continued: IMO it's the Dynamic/Static split - instead of the S/O - which is the stroke of genius. Andre: Total agreement here. Wishing you Bodvar, and All on this Discuss, a very pleasant, old- fashioned, candle-lit family Christmas. Kind regards Andre...working as usual tomorrow, in this heathen land!!! (hihi) Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
