Ron to Andre: I sincerely think Andre made a important observation in his christmas post.
Andre: And sincere thanks to you Ron. Ron to Bodvar: IS Andre impatient? from a specific western cutural point of view Bo's theories make sense. They are compelling from a certain perspective. Bodvar to Ron: Yes he is impatient with you but too polite to say so. Andre: Andre says he is not impatient with Ron. Ron: A metaphysics of Quality is a value centered metaphysics not logic centered. As Andre notes, logic has value, but logic is not required for a value centered reality. Andre: I agree Ron, with some clarification. Logic and rationality are SOM products. Aristotelian dialectics (I think) encompasses both? and with Aristotle, 'our scientific understanding of reality was born'.(ZMM). In this sense they carry loads of historical garbage same as e.g. the Christian 'God". SOM logic and rationality work and have worked remarkably well at the inorganic and, to some small extent at the organic level where , at the same time, they have wreaked havoc (destruction, extinction and pollution to name but a few). The logic the MoQ refers to is the logic Pirsig uses in Lila. It is Quality inspired and Quality/Harmony seeking. Attempting to reach a deeper understanding of the static puzzles our environment throws up. As far as I am concerned SOM logic and its rationality is used to find, exploit, control and (ab)use... .Just look at the social, intellectual and spiritual crisis we are in. LILA uses the logic of the koan which is used to 'liberate' to free up'' static patterns in an effort to move closer to DQ. In this sense I am beginning to understand Pirsig's description of the intellectual level as the 'skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no corresponding particular experience and which behave according to rules of their own' ( Letter to Paul Turner). Given the value centeredness of the MoQ it pre-supposes an interaction between 'manipulator' and 'manipulated'. When Quality is the sought after outcome, let the rules be decided as part of the process as you go along. Perhaps to be thought about and written up, after the outcome has been achieved. As John mentioned and as stated in Reanney, logic can/ should be used as a tool...never as a guide. Am not sure if I'm making much sense. Bodvar: 2 and 2 is 4 in social-steeped cultures as it is in intellect-steeped dittos, there are even animals that can count so logic - AKA intelligence - is used by the biological level too. Andre: My foot it is. The only 'intelligence' used at the biological level is the one called the laws of the jungle. Bodvar: Language and logic are intelligence's tools, but intelligence can serve any master. Andre: The MoQ 'serves' Dynamic Quality. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
