And back to the issue, How is oblivious experience at all preferable or reccomendable over awareness?
Pragmatic John On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:21 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > How about this? I pulled a switch and instead of going through awareness, > the train of thoughts went straight to oblivion. > > > > On Jan 26, 2010, at 3:04 AM, MarshaV wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > I'm not a religious person and have no idea what a religious experience > would be. > > > > For weeks it felt like something was going to happen, like my mind was > squinting, or something, and then it happened. It was visual. I was seeing > but their were no thoughts in my head, but I was aware. It was seeing, but > not seeing anything. It lasted about 5 minutes, no less, but I don't know > for sure. I was flabbergasted because it was so obvious. OMG, unpatterned > experience!!! Or, OMG I was totally aware without thinking. And then I > began not to believe my own experience, so I did on my own. Naturally, I > was excited. The next day I did it again of my own volition. I was > overjoyed, of course. It was wonderful. It was amazing. I tried it again > about a week later, and made it happen, but I haven't tried it since, which > is sad. Life interfered, or more probably I'm lazy and ungrateful. But it > was "real". Yet it's no big deal; it's what naturally happens. I guess. > Oh, I don't know; I don't know anything. > > > > I do not often enough sit in meditation, but do try to keep a mindfulness > throughout my day. I think there is a relationship, but I'm guessing. I > had a very formal meditation practice for a few years and was able to watch > my thoughts. I have no trouble saying that's watching patterns flicker > through mind, and that is why I go on about Quality (unpatterned experience > and patterned experience); both have been experienced. > > > > Maybe you'll think I have just described indigestion. Maybe if I hadn't > had such experiences I'd think the same thing. > > > > > > unMarsha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 25, 2010, at 7:58 PM, John Carl wrote: > > > >> sounds almost like a religious experience Marsha. Did it feel that way? > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:26 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Hi John, > >>> > >>> I was teasing. It never happened while I was formally > >>> meditating. I don't know why or how it happened, but > >>> it did. > >>> > >>> > >>> Marsha > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jan 25, 2010, at 1:21 PM, MarshaV wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> John, > >>>> > >>>> Yes, the 'idea' would be a pattern, but an experience > >>>> need not be patterned. Instead of tenderness, try a > >>>> little meditation. Or, you once offered to hit me on the > >>>> back of the head with a 2x4, may I offer to do the same > >>>> to you. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Marsha > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jan 25, 2010, at 1:03 PM, John Carl wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Do you mean I'd find unpatterned experience in Jane Austen? I've > read a > >>>>> couple of hers, and I have no idea what would qualify. > >>>>> > >>>>> In fact, the very idea that anything could qualify as unpatterned, is > a > >>>>> pattern. > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe I'm just too metaphysically picky. > >>>>> > >>>>> John > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 9:16 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 25, 2010, at 12:04 PM, John Carl wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> There's no such thing as > >>>>>>> "un-patterned experience" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> John, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are such experiences, but not for you. And I'm sure it > >>>>>> is being studied as a attribute of meditation.. I bet you might > >>>>>> find something in books by James Austin. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marsha > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the > stars... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>>>>> Archives: > >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >>>>>> > >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>>>> Archives: > >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>>> Archives: > >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>> Archives: > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >>> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
