John said to dmb: Well I guess I'm gonna just do like David T. this afternoon and sorta wing it here without overthinking my reply. I can do that, at times - overthink.
dmb says: Well, in this case your problem is definitely NOT too much thinking. If you look at the post again I think you'll clearly see that the joke was on me. I was, in effect, calling myself an asshole. See it works like this... I explain how projection means that people who criticize others are really criticizing themselves and then I followed that with conspicuously undeserved criticism. I mean, you'd probably have a better feel for the tone of that post if you read it out loud while doing your best Jon Stewart impression and breathing helium. That's about where I was at when I wrote it. Jeez. Overreact much? > > Who'd-a thunk? > > I'll address the last part of your missive first, respond back upside down > Chinese style. The last part of any message sticks in your brain most. The > last word of your message was "asshole". > > I don't recall ever calling anyone an "asshole". For one thing, Lu reads > this forum and she'd smack me proper upside the head. Doesn't like foul > language, our lu. > > That kind of talk is really more your style than mine David, but there's a > ring of truth to your accusation because even if I haven't used that exact > terminology, I've led to believe that that is in fact, my opinion of the > matter. > > > Second, your assertion of the existence of "projection" is something I > consider a great deal. It's something one sees a great deal in this life, > and after a while you almost come to expect it in others. Usually, you're > not disappointed in the expectation, although we always are in the results. > But I don't think I'm projecting any of my own problems onto my judgement > of you Dave. I haven't anything to judge you by but your word. And it's > not just me. Somebody mentioned "could this be a kinder, gentler DMB?" > That wouldn't get mentioned if it weren't a shocking new development. > You've exhibited in the past a deal of intellectual bullying that would > make the Chairman blush, and you've used arguments of appeal to authority in > a way that would make Socrates mutter and scowl. If you're sorry for your > sins, say so. Not to me of course. I was just a bystander to all this. > The only gripe I have against you is the lack of dialogue on your part, > that I came here for in the first place. Royce and James, back at it again. > What fun we could have. > > The part about getting out of a loop of negativity rang my bell. It > coincides with my refutation of Santayana's most quoted: Those who cannot > remember the past... blah blah. > > I'll repeat my reformulation, slightly differently. Those who can't let > the past slide are doomed to live it forever. > > References to the way things are in the movies always leave me cold; blaming > mediated reality as the cause of the spread of objectivism like I do... but > whatever. > > Me being open to being judged by others... is like a "duh" thing to my mind. > I feel pretty open about who I am. Wanna know my dark secrets? The smell > of my bowel movements? I don't care if my medical records are posted on the > internet or all my secrets and neurosis are discussed in public. It's kinda > flattering, if you think about it. Go ahead. Judge me. Make my day. I'm > completely open to it. In fact, I encourage judgement. Taste for yourself > what is good and what is not good in everyone and everything. I think we > should be constantly judging and constantly judged. Judgement is just > apprehension of Quality, after all. > > And Look! We're back to the beginning and right on topic too. > > > > > > dmb says: > > Damn straight. We can't function without making judgements and we need to > > make them all day long, everyday. This is what kills me about relativism. > > It's so obvious at odds with... with.... with... EVERY moment of my > > experience. > > > > > Ok, how does relativism obviate judgement? Maybe there's a technical > definition because otherwise I see a lot of pitfalls for ambiguities in that > conflict. I'll stick with what I told Marsha earlier, All truths are > equally created. Your truth that "We can't function without making > judgements" is a truth created by your interpretation of Quality. > > I think there is a bigger problem with stark individualism, SOM carving up > tribes into weak individual beings with nothing to bond or compare with but > mediated reality. But that's my rant. > > > > > > The aphorism is not really about that, though, is it? I think it's about > > about compassion. I mean, on one level it just means, "hey, be nice." > > > > > > Yeah, well if this is advice you subtly mean to me Dave, I am nice. It is > not hard for me, it is in my nature. I can be mean too, but I obviously > like nice better. So I will if you will. > > Play nice, that is. > > > John sharing space in the sandbox > > > > > > > > And maybe there's a little piece of wisdom hidden in there too. "Lest ye be > > judged". Hmmmm. Maybe one thing it means is that overly critical and > > unforgiving attitudes toward others tend to come right back at you. I don't > > just mean that you have to take your turn getting judged by others, although > > that can happen too, especially in the movies, but also that you end up > > applying these critical standards to your self. Then you start beating your > > self up for all kinds of infractions. You know, mentally beating yourself > > up. So maybe the saying is about NOT getting into a loop of negativity. Give > > the other guy a break and you end up giving yourself a break. You know? > > > > There's also the idea of projection. The saying could be a kind of > > recognition of that. This is basically a more potent version of the loop > > thing. The idea here is that we can't bear to face certain things about > > ourselves and so our most horrifying traits are projected onto the other guy > > the way a movie is projected onto the big white screen. On this view, these > > negative assessments only SEEM to be about somebody other than you but they > > never are. Or at least, as the kids might put it, "it takes one to know > > one". Think about that next time you call somebody an asshole. > > > > Thanks, > > dmb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. 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