Arlo, Platt
Feb 25.
[Platt] originally:
> > More evidence affirming your SOL.
"What had happened since the end of World War I was that
the intellectual level had taken over everything. It was this
intellectual level that was screwing everything up." (Lila, 24)
:
> > Mathematics was screwing everything up? Computer language? Buddhist
> > thought? Obviously none of the above. It was valueless SOM that was
> > screwing everything up, specifically identified by Pirsig as the
> > intellectual level.
Right, the 4th. level's true role comes out when Pirsig "lets it flow", but
when asked directly all kinds of weird definitions emerges. F.ex. the
"manipulation of symbols". You are just right Platt: It was the valueless
SOM - intellect before its true Q role became known - which was
screwing things up.
[Arlo]
> You know, its funny how far you bend over in every attempt to
> denigrate "intellect". Of course for you the intellectual level has
> to be that faulty, malicious, broken, amoral SOM. Why that allows you to
> demonize those evil perfessers as the enemy, to cast the Academy as the
> Great Villain, to scorn those "elitist interlictials" libs, and so
> forth...
Platt isn't bending in any angle, he's just digging up the passages
where intellect's true role is revealed and this proves to be far from the
usual "intelligence" fallacy.
About "denigrating intellect". It is its self-appointed roles that needs to
be denigrated. One is the said "intelligence", as if thinking itself is an
intellectual property. Another is the more vague "mind" role (in a
metaphysics that forswears both mind and matter!!!) as a mental
container where ideas/concepts reside - consequently the MOQ too -
something that make just everything intellectual patterns.
You will also remember that Academy was Phaedrus antagonist in
ZAMM
> So, hey, if you really want posit a MOQ where matheematics, computer
> languages and "Buddhist thought" are all social level patterns, please, by
> all means, the humor is a nice thing most days.
The term "mathematics" is surely an intellectual - academical -
branch, but the point is that people could do all kind of calculations
long before the intellectual level (ref. Pirsig about the Ancient
Egyptians) they just had no fancy names of these crafts. The same
goes for "computer language" that only arrived with computers, but
principally it just language and Cave Man had language ages before
the 4th. level. "Buddhist thought" weren't part of the list, it was "Logic
itself" which only means "thinking". Pirsig said that these had "..no S/O
content", but intellectuality occurs when things are made into
academical fields, subjects to objective study, not about "having S/O
content".
> I'm siding with Pirsig, though, personally. His ideas make a lot more
> sense.
That's what Platt and I also do. The above quote reveals "a lot of
sense".
Bodvar
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
