Hey Steve John, MarshaV, and David, Sorry to leave you out last time David, I really haven't had time to absorb John or Davids post yet, or even all of your most recent. Each question spurs many more, like P's hypotheses.
Let me try to say it this way. P talks about a new metaphysics, and the roots of that mp. Descartes in a letter spoke of the tree of knowledge as having metaphysics as the roots, and the trunk being physics, and all the other disciplines being the branches of the tree. Using this metaphor, I want to look at the ground that tree grows from-and the seed. The seed is the human heart, and the ground is the understanding of God...or if you please, Ultimate Reality. This is the case will be arguing, showing the unity of culture, (around an understanding of the transcendent) So this is an integral view of culture showing the interrelationship of ideas across all disciplines. Furthermore, as P says, and he is right, we are at a great turning point in the West, and changing roots. And with it we are changing the entire culture, we are in fact, changing Gods-or more precisely, turning to idols. But regardless of your personal religious belief, and you all have one, I want to show that much of what we take for granted are limbs on the tree we are cutting down. We are destroying the tree, cutting off the branch on which we depend. Ayn Rand said in a lecture to West Point cadets, that politics is the last outgrowth of philosophy. She was right and that is what I'm trying to show. But I am taking it one step back to show that politics, law, etc. are the last outgrowth of theology. Eventually I hope some of you will take some of this discussion to my blog where I can get you hooked in to some other groups. This cross fertilization will benefit us all. My Dooyeweerd list and complexity list and this list would make a wonderful, synergistic mix. So think about, when you have time, visiting the blog and making a post or two. I'll probably post the entire chapter by Joseph Campbell there. It will also help you understand my thinking more if you read the articles there. A childhood friend of mine has posted a response to the first article on the blog, which sounds much like this group. You guys would have much in common with him, and this may be a good entry point if you are interested in joining the discussion there, too. http://www.thelovingorganization.com/crisis/ Thanks, Jon http://www.thelovingorganization.com/crisis/ On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Steven Peterson <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Jon, > > > I am feeling better, but wow, you guys are hard to keep up with. > > The purpose of this thread is to show just how much the God/creator > pattern > > has worked for you and is working now, whether you are aware of it or > not. > > > > I know nothing about you though, so I'm speaking about those who live in > the > > Western world, and particularly, in America. But wherever you live, in > > whatever culture in whatever society, you live under the influence of > ideas > > about God. > > You live somewhere governed by law .Even in using the internet, or > google, > > their are restrictions if you live in China or Iraq, for example. > > You can't avoid it. Legal norms, ethical norms, political institutions > are > > based in philosophical ideas that are based in theological ideas. > > > When you say that such things as human rights are based in theological > ideas, do you mean that such ideas arose from thinkers who believed in > God (if so, there is no argument here), or are you making a case that > things like human rights have an ontological foundation in God? Are > you talking about rights being self-evident as the answer to an > epistemological question about how we know about rights, or are you > making an ontological claim about rights and the natire of reality? > > Or maybe you are just trying to defend religion as having turned out > to be right about rights. Does that mean that they are also right > about heaven and hell and virgin births and Mohammed flying away on a > winged steed? > > I'm not sure what you are after. There is no doubt that our culture is > heavily influenced by Christianity. What are we supposed to conclude > from that? > > Best, > Steve > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
