Unkle Bo, On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:35 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Bo now: > Some people's understanding of the Q-levels is odd, at least when it > comes to the 3rd. and 4th. levels, like here where John's "social" is > about making a living and "intellect" the ability to do so. I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a very good short-hand explanation, Bo: "social" is about making a living and "intellect" the ability to do so. Sometimes we find gems in the oddest places. > The levels are > about an dynamic flight away from "stability" which have resulted in a > new higher - yet static - level. until the final meta-level where the > Quality context is revealed. > > This particular gem needs polishing, imo. The facets are uneven and chaotic. How can a flight from stability be anything but entropic madness? > Pirsig said that the levels are known from SOM and the inorganic and > organic can hardly be misinterpreted, but when it comes to the 3rd. it > has no connection with scientific "sociology" and with the 4th. all the > ties to SOM are broken. And yet, you say it is SOM. I'm confused. Get out the jeweler's tools and try again. > John makes it sound like intelligence and this > has been the stumbling stone from day one of this discussion. > > Dividing intelligence from intellect is a useful distinction. But just constantly harping on the semantical difference without discussing the meaningful, gets discouraging to us little kids. Too abstract. Too repetitive. Us Kindergardners like our misspellings meaningful and our stories simple but poetic. So make it more interesting. Like talk about intellect being the art of knowing, where intelligence is the technique. Something like that. John Prev. > But in MoQdom, it's an immorality to put social level patterns as > > "primary". First, intellect values knowledge in itself, apart from > > its social consequences, and then these other things do come in. > > Bo confused: > What's the point here? The inorganic level is first if that means > "primary" . Here primary refers to "first in order of values" Rhyme it with "Pryority". I've got a whiteboard above my work workbench that says "John C. Pryority list". On it are my primary concerns. Here on MD I work out my kindergarden ones. > "Intellect values knowledge .."? Intellect IS the value of > objective knowledge (aka truth) over subjective belief, but NB!! both S > and O are indigenous to intellect, when the social level was "leading > edge" it did not - er - know that its god-run reality was "subjective" or > "superstition". > > Well we have a completely differing metaphysical stance. Self -other realization is indigenenous to SOCIAL patterns, for that's what "Self/Object" is primarily - a social pattern. Two things relating. It's a realization that comes about when our environment turns into our moms. Thus my thesis of social patterns arising in mammalian infant nurture, and S/O consciousness being indigenous to 3rd level, not 4th. In fact, I'm starting to think that its the cartesian enthronement of this S/O realization which is at the heart of SOM and is based upon the unconscious needs of an inadequately socialized genius. Descartes was weaned too soon! It's the answer to all problems. > > The Q-kindergarten is starting to fill up now - Andre will be joining soon > - but John is ready to move up a notch. > > Uncle Bodvar > > Not a chance. They caught me out in that trick when I was younger, but I learned my lessons. The more hoops you jump through, the more conditioned you become to jump through hoops. Done with it! ya don't need no eighth grade diploma to strike oil nor be a happy chicken farmer's handyman. I'm stickin' with the K class. Mebbe with enough seniority I can start to teach here. John > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
