Bodvar to Andre:
Hi Andre
Andre:
Hi Bodvar
Bodvar:
About the MOQ replacing SOM and that
intellect is a moral level, has that just dawned on you?
Andre:
It has just dawned on me that you agree that the intellectual
level is a moral level within the MOQ program, and, by implication
that it has replaced SOM and again by implication, your SOL (derived from SOM).
It has just dawned on me because you have just said so.This is a
major breakthrough on your part. You have wrestled with this for the past
decade.
Bodvar:
Right, SOM is the system - the metaphysics - that declares morals to
be subjective - to reside in our minds (it doesn't really declare them
"illegal")
Andre:
But alas, you are not aware of your surroundings...yet. Must be the Cleveland
Effect.
The word 'illegal' was used by Mr. Pirsig...I know you had/still have a
difference with him.
As to the first part of your sentence i.e. 'subjective' therefore 'minds' idea
was coined by Rene Descartes. He died 360 years ago and has been buried most
definately by the MOQ which sees 'subjective' as a completely different set of
value patterns.
But you continue:
Bodvar:
but (and here's the crux) if SOM's arrival from the Aret?
Andre:
A big IF indeed, as dmb has pointed out arete isn't social level stuff. It was
Quality the Sophists were teaching!!!...dharma. You have 'reduced' Quality to
the social level and have not recognised it as a possible social level
expression.But even this is limiting. Read Homer carefully...it clearly states
excellence in all areas...not just the social.
Bodvar:
and MOQ's from SOM
Andre:
I doubt this very much. I maintain the MOQ is not from SOM
Bodvar:
all takes place within an "intellect" which isn't MOQ's 4th level
Andre:
I thought you just said that the intellectual level as MOQ is a moral level
Bodvar:
but good old MIND and SOM is back ....
Andre:
The MOQ suggests to drop the idea/notion of 'mind' altogether. You seem to be
the only one still using this 'outmoded' concept...because you are still stuck
in SOL thinking. (I think)
Bodvar:
The only thing that makes sense and avoids all logical bends and new
Q-generated platypis is the SOM as MOQ's 4th. level - all of it, every
last bit, that way the Arete-SOM shift was the social-intellectual one
and ZAMM is harmonized with LILA and the MOQ.
Andre:
As Mr. Pirsig has pointed out to you (Annotn. 133) this 'conclusion undermines
the MOQ'.
Bodvar:
Stop this silly "another level" talk.
Andre:
With all due respect, you are the one that has suggested another fucking level!
The 'Quality-level', the 'super-rationality' level...!
Bodvar:
How many times have I said that the MOQ is no static level but the Quality
Reality,
Andre:
Probably too often Bodvar. The MOQ, by the expression of its own very idea, is
a static intellectual pattern of value.
Bodvar:
the "system" that contains the intellectual level that - by no twist of logic -
can contain the
system it's a sub-set of. Get it?
Andre:
You have inductively arrived at you SOL interpretation...a purely intellectual
exercise. The Quality idea arrived inductively as well. LILA is the MOQ program
derived from this idea deductively applying DQ/SQ 'logic'. Yes, it is amazing
what happens when you let go of S/O logic.
Bodvar:
I see you have learned the twisted vocabulary of the "weak" interpreters, as if Pirsig unanimously has rejected the SOL?!
Andre:
With two hernia operations, and two arthroscopies on my knees I cannot afford
to do too much twisting dear Bodvar...it is because of these that I have
learned to be flexible and follow DQ whenever and wherever I recognised it both
physically (in/organic)and culturally (social/intellectual)plus a bit of
'other' cultural. (I'm in my fourth year living and working in China you know).
And he has Bodvar. He was very, very kind in his wording of it. Pirsig is a
GOOD man.
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