Marsha, you don't wish to answer? Even though I'm not really asking a question about "the god pattern" but the social pattern as observed in the light of overcoming the god pattern?
Hmmmm... IN-teresting... On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:23 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi John, > > I really appreciate your open-mindedness, but I have nothing to > say about the god-pattern. I really have nothing to say, and > bringing Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny into the discussion > will not inspire me to change my mind. I am sorry to say no to > you. > > > Marsha > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2010, at 4:43 PM, John Carl wrote: > > > Marsha, > > > > You need no argumentation to convince at least me, that Buddhism used > logic > > and purely rational philosophical methods to achieve realizations which > are > > highly advanced, even today. > > > > The Buddha was not only an amazing thinker and philosopher, but a superb > > teacher as well and his students built on his insights to an astoundingly > > wonderful degree. I only have had a small exposure to their teaching, a > > compilation of the ancient antecedents of zen, called chan where it was > > born, but that small exposure was enough to make me realize the extremely > > high quality of intellectual attainment in this line of thinking. What a > > gift for the world! > > > > The book was called "The Roaring Stream" and its poetry and power have > left > > me wanting more. Another library book to order from ebay. > > > > > > But regardless of this high quality intellectual thinking at the heart of > > the east, the area under Buddha's purview seems somewhat lacking in > > comparison to the Christianity-dominated west. > > > > I believe this ties in to a dialogue I wanted to have with you, that I > tried > > to raise with you on an earlier thread, but which I never found your > answer. > > > > The dialogue concerns whether it is better for society to have an idea of > > God to struggle against and overcome, or no idea of God at all in the > first > > place. My analogy centered on whether we should rid our children of such > > ideas as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and just give them the > straight > > facts from birth... > > > > Or, whether perhaps, there is an intellectual strength to be gained from > > attaining to atheism on your own, bucking your parental authority, > bucking > > social authority, bucking God Himself! in order to assert your own > > intellectual being. > > > > See, I see that as a process. A way of strengthening and in fact > creating > > an intellectual "muscle" that wouldn't exist unless it had something as > big > > as God to push against. And that future generations are deprived of this > > musclular selfdom, by our egoistic assertions of subjective enlightenment > as > > absolute. > > > > Is kinda what I wondered if you'd ever thought about... > > > > yours ever, > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> To recap why I think Buddhism cannot be used as an exception to > >> the Intellectual Level being SOM, I offer these to quotes that indicate > >> that Buddhism used logic and the scientific method for an objective > >> study of 'Mind'. > >> > >> > >> "... So at the beginning, in the middle and at the end of the Buddha's > >> path, > >> observation plays an extremely important role. This is similar to the > role > >> that > >> objective observation plays in the scientific tradition which teaches > that > >> when > >> we observe a problem we first formulate a general theory followed by > >> specific > >> hypothesis. We find the same thing happening in the teaching of the Four > >> Noble Truths and here the general theory is that all things have a > cause, > >> and the specific hypothesis is that the causes of suffering are craving > and > >> ignorance." > >> > >> " Experience in Buddhism is comprised of two components - the > objective > >> component and the subjective component. In other works, the things > around > >> us and we the perceivers. Buddhism is noted for its analytical method > in > >> the > >> area of philosophy and psychology. What we mean by this is that the > Buddha > >> analyzes experience into various elements, the most basic of these being > >> the > >> five Skandhas or aggregates - form, feeling, perception, mental > formation > >> or > >> volition and consciousness. The five aggregates in turn can be > analyzed > >> into the eighteen elements (Dhatus) and we have a still more elaborate > >> analysis in terms of seventy two elements. This method is analytical > >> as it breaks up things. We are not satisfied with a vague notion of > >> experience, > >> but we analyze it, we probe it, we break it down into its component > parts > >> like > >> we break down the chariot into the wheels, the axle and so on. And we > do > >> this in order to get an idea how things work. When we see for instance a > >> flower, or hear a piece of music, or meet a friend, all these > experiences > >> arise as a result of components. This is what is called the analytical > >> approach. > >> And again this analytical approach is not at all strange to modern > science > >> and > >> philosophy." > >> > >> > >> (Peter D. Santina, 'Fundamentals of Buddhism',BAUS) > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
