John, What is the question?
Marsha On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:08 AM, John Carl wrote: > Marsha, > > When you say, "This is an attempt at psychological manipulation," > > to which pattern of words are you refering? > > Yours? > > Or mine? > > Or all of ours? > > you me and dmb makes three. > > As for me, I wasn't searching for "adults" to respond; I was asking YOU! > > Silly Marsha, > > Tricks are for kids. > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:54 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> John, >> >> This is an attempt at psychological manipulation, and so was suggesting >> that god was something to intellectually push against, and so was looking >> for adults to respond, and so was dmb-dmbs "Unbelievable.". Do you >> understand 'pattern'? >> >> I need to be silly. >> >> >> marsha, >> the undone >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:44 AM, John Carl wrote: >> >>> Marsha, you don't wish to answer? Even though I'm not really asking a >>> question about "the god pattern" but the social pattern as observed in >> the >>> light of overcoming the god pattern? >>> >>> Hmmmm... >>> >>> IN-teresting... >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:23 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi John, >>>> >>>> I really appreciate your open-mindedness, but I have nothing to >>>> say about the god-pattern. I really have nothing to say, and >>>> bringing Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny into the discussion >>>> will not inspire me to change my mind. I am sorry to say no to >>>> you. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 27, 2010, at 4:43 PM, John Carl wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marsha, >>>>> >>>>> You need no argumentation to convince at least me, that Buddhism used >>>> logic >>>>> and purely rational philosophical methods to achieve realizations which >>>> are >>>>> highly advanced, even today. >>>>> >>>>> The Buddha was not only an amazing thinker and philosopher, but a >> superb >>>>> teacher as well and his students built on his insights to an >> astoundingly >>>>> wonderful degree. I only have had a small exposure to their teaching, >> a >>>>> compilation of the ancient antecedents of zen, called chan where it was >>>>> born, but that small exposure was enough to make me realize the >> extremely >>>>> high quality of intellectual attainment in this line of thinking. What >> a >>>>> gift for the world! >>>>> >>>>> The book was called "The Roaring Stream" and its poetry and power have >>>> left >>>>> me wanting more. Another library book to order from ebay. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But regardless of this high quality intellectual thinking at the heart >> of >>>>> the east, the area under Buddha's purview seems somewhat lacking in >>>>> comparison to the Christianity-dominated west. >>>>> >>>>> I believe this ties in to a dialogue I wanted to have with you, that I >>>> tried >>>>> to raise with you on an earlier thread, but which I never found your >>>> answer. >>>>> >>>>> The dialogue concerns whether it is better for society to have an idea >> of >>>>> God to struggle against and overcome, or no idea of God at all in the >>>> first >>>>> place. My analogy centered on whether we should rid our children of >> such >>>>> ideas as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and just give them the >>>> straight >>>>> facts from birth... >>>>> >>>>> Or, whether perhaps, there is an intellectual strength to be gained >> from >>>>> attaining to atheism on your own, bucking your parental authority, >>>> bucking >>>>> social authority, bucking God Himself! in order to assert your own >>>>> intellectual being. >>>>> >>>>> See, I see that as a process. A way of strengthening and in fact >>>> creating >>>>> an intellectual "muscle" that wouldn't exist unless it had something as >>>> big >>>>> as God to push against. And that future generations are deprived of >> this >>>>> musclular selfdom, by our egoistic assertions of subjective >> enlightenment >>>> as >>>>> absolute. >>>>> >>>>> Is kinda what I wondered if you'd ever thought about... >>>>> >>>>> yours ever, >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To recap why I think Buddhism cannot be used as an exception to >>>>>> the Intellectual Level being SOM, I offer these to quotes that >> indicate >>>>>> that Buddhism used logic and the scientific method for an objective >>>>>> study of 'Mind'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "... So at the beginning, in the middle and at the end of the Buddha's >>>>>> path, >>>>>> observation plays an extremely important role. This is similar to the >>>> role >>>>>> that >>>>>> objective observation plays in the scientific tradition which teaches >>>> that >>>>>> when >>>>>> we observe a problem we first formulate a general theory followed by >>>>>> specific >>>>>> hypothesis. We find the same thing happening in the teaching of the >> Four >>>>>> Noble Truths and here the general theory is that all things have a >>>> cause, >>>>>> and the specific hypothesis is that the causes of suffering are >> craving >>>> and >>>>>> ignorance." >>>>>> >>>>>> " Experience in Buddhism is comprised of two components - the >>>> objective >>>>>> component and the subjective component. In other works, the things >>>> around >>>>>> us and we the perceivers. Buddhism is noted for its analytical method >>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> area of philosophy and psychology. What we mean by this is that the >>>> Buddha >>>>>> analyzes experience into various elements, the most basic of these >> being >>>>>> the >>>>>> five Skandhas or aggregates - form, feeling, perception, mental >>>> formation >>>>>> or >>>>>> volition and consciousness. The five aggregates in turn can be >>>> analyzed >>>>>> into the eighteen elements (Dhatus) and we have a still more elaborate >>>>>> analysis in terms of seventy two elements. This method is analytical >>>>>> as it breaks up things. We are not satisfied with a vague notion of >>>>>> experience, >>>>>> but we analyze it, we probe it, we break it down into its component >>>> parts >>>>>> like >>>>>> we break down the chariot into the wheels, the axle and so on. And we >>>> do >>>>>> this in order to get an idea how things work. When we see for instance >> a >>>>>> flower, or hear a piece of music, or meet a friend, all these >>>> experiences >>>>>> arise as a result of components. This is what is called the >> analytical >>>>>> approach. >>>>>> And again this analytical approach is not at all strange to modern >>>> science >>>>>> and >>>>>> philosophy." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> (Peter D. Santina, 'Fundamentals of Buddhism',BAUS) >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
