Krimel said:
...as I feared the main points of my earlier post was lost. I am reposting it
here in the hope that it will get the attention I think it deserves: Note: This
BTW, is the essence of my understanding of the MoQ. 1. Shit Happens. 2.
Quality is Chaos 3. Quality (Chaos) has two aspects DQ (uncertainty) SQ
(certainty) 4. Value (meaning) is reduction of uncertainty. (That is, meaning
results from and results in, our ability to create and manipulate static
quality) 5. Biological organisms are the meaning (SQ) that evolution derives
from chaos. 6. As such organisms, we create meaning from chaos 7. We are
beings that create SQ from the DQ around us or to use James' terms, We derive
concepts from experience
dmb says:
I was trying to be polite, but since you asked twice I'll tell pay it some
attention.
It seems to me that the whole thing revolves around the notion that "Quality is
Chaos". If that part of your picture is undermined everything else falls with
it, more or less. We all know that shit happens. I'll certainly go along with
you there. But if Quality is not Chaos, and it's definitely not, then the whole
thing folds like a cheap card table, which it is. There are many pieces of
evidence to choose from but I like the passages from the end of his second
book, in this case chapter 30:
"One of Phaedrus' old school texts ..contained a good summary: 'RTA, which
etymologically stands for 'course' originally meant 'cosmic order', the
maintenance of which was the purpose of all the gods; and later it also came to
mean 'right' so that the gods were conceived as preserving the world not merely
from physical disorder but also from moral chaos. The one idea is implicit in
the other; and there is order in the universe because its control is in
righteous hands.'The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of
the universe. Rta is both. This is exactly what the MOQ was claiming. it was
not a new idea. It was the oldest idea known to man.This identification of RTA
and ARETE was enormously valuable, Phaedrus thought, because it provided a huge
historical panorama in which the fundamental conflict between static and
Dynamic Quality had been worked out."
"Dharma, like rta, means 'what holds together'. It is the basis of all order.
It equals righteousness. It is the ethical code. It is the stable condition
which gives man perfect satisfaction. Dharma is duty. It is not external duty
which is arbitrarily imposed by others. It is not any artificial set of
conventions which can be repealed by legislation. Neither is it internal duty
which is arbitrarily decided by one's own conscience. Dharma is beyond all
questions of what is internal and what is external. Dharma is Quality itself,
the principle of 'rightness' which gives structure and purpose to the evolution
of all life and to the evolving understanding of the universe which life
created."
First of all, this strikes me as a very beautiful and very powerful summary of
the MOQ. But it the point is to refute the notion that "Quality is Chaos". If
it Quality itself is "the basis of all order" and "the principle of rightness
which gives structure and purpose to all life" then Quality is the exact
opposite of chaos. That would mean you were about as wrong as it's possible to
be - and this error is about nothing less than the MOQ's central term.
What was that thing you were saying about elephants and gnats? Compared to the
epic nature of this blunder, elephants would look like gnats. Yep, you
practically gotta get in hot air balloon if you want to see the whole thing at
once. It's visible from space.
Just kidding.
But it is pretty bad.
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