Hi Mark,
RELATIVITY:
the tallest dwarf
meeting the smallest giant -
same size
---
Marsha
On Oct 5, 2010, at 1:16 PM, 118 wrote:
> Hi Marsha,
>
> Yes, I see what you mean. While being a thorny issue, terminology is the
> digital cable which connects analogue bioreactors such as ourselves in
> common thought. These connections, while rudimentary, are what we got. So,
> I have no illusions of definite meanings. And, yes, each word has our own
> subjective meaning which is why we gather more words together to try to
> share the same picture.
>
> Tying the metaphysics of Quality to the metaphysics of Buddhism is indeed an
> interesting and perhaps worthwhile effort, and I have spent some time
> contemplating it (along with my navel). I find the abstractness of Buddhism
> to be amenable to metaphysical discussion.
>
> According to Buddhism (in my understanding), there is no independent
> arising. We as souls of this earth are an amalgamation of all other things,
> and as such do not exist independently. I am sure that for Buddhists this
> brings about an awareness which is meaningful for them. I would also have
> to say that it is but a refuge for those which such needs.
>
> If I were to posit that Quality creates Truth, then the Noble Truths of
> Buddhism would arise from Quality. But, if we need a cause and effect
> scenario, where does Quality come from? I could suggest that Quality
> arrises from Emptiness. That is, that Quality is THE independent arising.
> Of course this is nonsense to Buddhists, but perhaps they are stuck.
>
> My sense of such arising is the interconnectedness of all (or the
> codependent arising), however it is more tangible than that. This is why I
> used the metaphor of golden strands in a previous post. That is, the
> relational attachment. Hard to explain, so I'll stop there and take a
> breath.
>
> Here is how I imagine a conversation would go between a Buddhist and me:
>
> Buddhist: The world is empty of independent arising.
>
> Me: There is one thing that arrises, that is Quality.
>
> Buddhist: What is Quality?
>
> Me: It is that which arrises independently.
>
> Buddhist: Then you haven't understood the concept of Emptiness
>
> Me: Then you haven't understood the concept of Quality.
>
> Buddhist: Stop bothering me, I'm contemplating!
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:35 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> From Emptiness arises conventional truths, from Quality arises static
>> patterns of value. I see them as synonyms, and analogies pointing to
>> what is beyond concepts. Quality and Emptiness as one and the same.
>> To me the Quantum measurement problem, the skeleton in the
>> laboratory closet, is pointing its boney finger at Quality/Emptiness.
>> Quality/Emptiness can be said to be arising from that which they are
>> analogizing.
>>
>> Terminology can be a thorny issue. But the MoQ, as a bridge between
>> Western Science and Eastern Wisdom/Insight must consider different
>> dictionaries. For instance, if one thinks about the word 'Quality', it can
>> seem
>> quite strange. Yet is it any less "weird" than 'dark space',
>> 'superposition' or '
>> entanglement'? Not at all! The concepts behind these words are definitely
>> out from the ordinary. The Eastern concepts should pose no problem.
>> It's all very interesting and all worth pondering. imho.
>>
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 5, 2010, at 1:16 AM, 118 wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps Marsha,
>>>
>>> It just doesn't work for me, though. I tend to think of Quality as
>>> Fullness.
>>>
>>> Emptiness as a word does not do the concept of co-dependent arising
>>> justice. Maybe it is in the translation to English. However, once
>>> redefined
>>> throughpersonal understanding of what the word is suppose to mean,
>>> then I guess is as good a word as any. Every discipline has its own
>>> dictionary.Quality may be arising from Emptiness, what do you think?
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:01 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it is acceptable within the MoQ to consider Emptiness equivalent
>>>> toQuaiity...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Emptiness & Quantum Mechanics (8 minutes)
>>>> by B. Alan Wallace
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://web.me.com/ksnowsb108/B._Alan_Wallace_Podcasts/Podcast/Entries/2009/2/7_Emptiness_%26_Quantum_Mechanics.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bio: Dr. Wallace, a scholar and practitioner of Buddhism since 1970,
>> has
>>>> taught Buddhist theory and meditation worldwide since 1976. Having
>> devoted
>>>> fourteen years to training as a Tibetan Buddhist monk, ordained by H. H.
>> the
>>>> Dalai Lama, he went on to earn an undergraduate degree in physics and
>> the
>>>> philosophy of science at Amherst College and a doctorate in religious
>>>> studies at Stanford.
>>>>
>>>>
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