Hey Dave, Speaking of Aristotle, his arguement against relativism and emptiness is that it ignores or neglects value. It does not account for Quality or the good. By adopting emptiness and relativism, Marsha denies Quality exists.
Robert Fulghum made a great MoQ statement that applies: "Liberation finally amounts to being free from things we dislike in order to be enslaved by things we approve of." -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: david buchanan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 7:14:26 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Emptiness & Quantum Mechancics Marsha: It doesn't matter that you were haikuing to Mark. You've confused relations and comparisons with relativity many, many times and the point still stands. There is a difference between the two and the failure to recognize that has lead you into many misconceptions. In fact, your impression that this explanation is irrelevant strikes me as further evidence of your confusion. How you fail to see the relevance? Since I was talking directly to you about your views, that's hardly plausible. By calling it irrelevant, you just mean that you have no intention of acknowledging the point or learning from it in any way. There's a very static static pattern. Insult and evade, dismiss, evade and insult, then evade, dismiss and evade while insulting as you evade and dismiss. It's so boring and so predictable. Maybe "stale pattern" would be a better term for it. Really, Marsha. If your responses are just going to be empty, unresponsive nothings, why bother? Nothing would be better. This kind of response only adds bad vibes for no reason at all. It's just distracting, energy-sucking negativity with no point and no purpose. It's ego-driven bullshit and you know it. You're just being a party pooper, a wet blanket and bad sport. I almost hate to say it but this behavior does not serve the cause of feminism. You're acting suspiciously like the worst old-school stereotypes. > From: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:02:36 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] Emptiness & Quantum Mechancics > > > dmb, > > I might also point out that this little haiku was a response to Mark's > post, concerning Quality and Emptiness, so your post was totally > irrelevant. > > > Marsha > > > > > > On Oct 5, 2010, at 4:11 PM, david buchanan wrote: > > > > > > > Marsha said: > > RELATIVITY: > > the tallest dwarf > > meeting the smallest giant > > - same size > > > > > > > > dmb says: > > > > No, that's not what relativity means. Relativity means there is no standard >by which to measure things like truth and moral values. > > > > > What you have above is merely three sets of relations. > > > > The dwarf is tallest in relation to other dwarves. > > The giant is the smallest when compared to other giants. > > In relation to each other, the dwarf and the giant are the same size. > > > > As a practical matter, these relations do not depend on one's perspective > > or >worldview. It just depends on whether or not you can get all the dwarfs and >giants to stand next to a measuring tape. That's how you know you've got the >tallest dwarf in the first place. That's how you know all other giants are >bigger. These are quantifiable facts and all three sets of relations are true >at >the same time without contradiction. The term "relative" can be used to mean >"in >relation to" or "by comparison with" but that doesn't have anything to do with >the objectionable philosophical stance known as relativism. If we say the >dwarf >is relatively tall, we don't mean his height cannot be determined or that his >height depends on one's understanding of the term "tall". > > > > > > > Words and concepts are relational in a similar way. As I like to point out, >the meaning of the terms "static" and "dynamic" is relational in the sense >that >"static" means the opposite of dynamic and "Dynamic" means the opposite of >static. The meaning of each term is depends on not being the other, the same >way >hot and cold or short and tall define each other by opposition. Words also >derive their meaning by virtue of their relation to context in which the term >is >being used. "Tall" can mean "highly exaggerated" when we're talking about >tales, >it can refer to the shape of a cocktail glass when talking to a bartender, it >can mean "difficult" when we're talking about tall orders and tall obstacles. >It >can refer to a proud posture or walking style as well as actual height. Many >words are very flexible and have many different meanings depending on the >context but again this is to say that meaning is relational, not relative to >the >user. Words mean what they mean in relation to o > th > > er words and in relation to the context in which it's being used. In other >words, we can't isolate the meaning of a term because it derives it's meaning >from the whole language system. This is the net of jewels idea applied to >words. >Similarly, some philosophers talk about our "web" of beliefs. This image get >across the idea that some concepts are more central than others, which is >probably true. > > > > > > Compared to the top of Mount Everest and the tallest short guy, the Empire >State Building is shorter and taller at the same time. These are not relative >truths or opposed claims or two different views. It's merely two different >comparisons, two different facts. The building is never going to be taller >than >the mountain and it'll never be shorter than any person, not even the tallest >giant. I don't mean to be some kind of yard-stick fundamentalist. I'm just >saying that relations are just as real as anything else and it's a part of >what >it means for something to be true and right. This could be called >relationalism >or relationism or wholism or contextualism or situationalism. But relativity >or >relativism is something else entirely. It's the philosophical equivalent of >combining halitosis with leprosy. > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
