dmb, I guess I need to repeat myself, so here goes:
On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:33 PM, MarshaV wrote: > > > Maybe you should write to the various Buddhist communities to convince them > to refrain from stating that 'relative truth' is the conventional way we > perceive reality. Until then I'm not much interested in what you think on > cognitive relativism. In fact, that's why I don't want to discuss with you, > dmb. I think you don't really know what you're talking about. Sorry. > Marsha On Oct 5, 2010, at 4:11 PM, david buchanan wrote: > > > Marsha said: > RELATIVITY: > the tallest dwarf > meeting the smallest giant > - same size > > > > dmb says: > > No, that's not what relativity means. Relativity means there is no standard > by which to measure things like truth and moral values. > > What you have above is merely three sets of relations. > > The dwarf is tallest in relation to other dwarves. > The giant is the smallest when compared to other giants. > In relation to each other, the dwarf and the giant are the same size. > > As a practical matter, these relations do not depend on one's perspective or > worldview. It just depends on whether or not you can get all the dwarfs and > giants to stand next to a measuring tape. That's how you know you've got the > tallest dwarf in the first place. That's how you know all other giants are > bigger. These are quantifiable facts and all three sets of relations are true > at the same time without contradiction. The term "relative" can be used to > mean "in relation to" or "by comparison with" but that doesn't have anything > to do with the objectionable philosophical stance known as relativism. If we > say the dwarf is relatively tall, we don't mean his height cannot be > determined or that his height depends on one's understanding of the term > "tall". > > > Words and concepts are relational in a similar way. As I like to point out, > the meaning of the terms "static" and "dynamic" is relational in the sense > that "static" means the opposite of dynamic and "Dynamic" means the opposite > of static. The meaning of each term is depends on not being the other, the > same way hot and cold or short and tall define each other by opposition. > Words also derive their meaning by virtue of their relation to context in > which the term is being used. "Tall" can mean "highly exaggerated" when we're > talking about tales, it can refer to the shape of a cocktail glass when > talking to a bartender, it can mean "difficult" when we're talking about tall > orders and tall obstacles. It can refer to a proud posture or walking style > as well as actual height. Many words are very flexible and have many > different meanings depending on the context but again this is to say that > meaning is relational, not relative to the user. Words mean what they mean in > relation to o th > er words and in relation to the context in which it's being used. In other > words, we can't isolate the meaning of a term because it derives it's meaning > from the whole language system. This is the net of jewels idea applied to > words. Similarly, some philosophers talk about our "web" of beliefs. This > image get across the idea that some concepts are more central than others, > which is probably true. > > > Compared to the top of Mount Everest and the tallest short guy, the Empire > State Building is shorter and taller at the same time. These are not relative > truths or opposed claims or two different views. It's merely two different > comparisons, two different facts. The building is never going to be taller > than the mountain and it'll never be shorter than any person, not even the > tallest giant. I don't mean to be some kind of yard-stick fundamentalist. I'm > just saying that relations are just as real as anything else and it's a part > of what it means for something to be true and right. This could be called > relationalism or relationism or wholism or contextualism or situationalism. > But relativity or relativism is something else entirely. It's the > philosophical equivalent of combining halitosis with leprosy. > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
