Hi Mark, There is to deepen one's understanding of both Quality and Emptiness, both rationally and through experience. I am not a Buddhist. I am an MoQ'ist. Yet the MoQ has given me insights into Buddhism, and Buddhism has given me insights into the MoQ. Many paths, remember? I had a history with yoga and Vedic texts, especially one by Patanjali. There are also areas in quantum physics that seem to add a new and important dimension. My quest complete? Heavens no!!! But be it the MoQ or Buddhism, I do fall back on the fact that the MoQ is Reality equals Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience,) and these discussions are patterns of value, and ultimately represent not this, not that.
Marsha On Oct 6, 2010, at 2:37 PM, 118 wrote: > Hi Marsha, > > Hard to understand from this distance, I don't even know if you are real... > > By saying that Quality and Emptiness are synonymous, what else is there to > say? There is plenty of literature, ritual, and lifestyle based on > Emptiness. So, I don't think you can get away with an RMP statement that > easily. If we are talking Buddhism, then you have finished your quest. Me, > I will continue building some strange structure. > > IMHO > Mark > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 8:50 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Mark, >> >> I expected that it would be understood to be a response to our posted >> exchange. You, if I remember correctly brought up the subject of >> "many paths." (Btw, in Ant's PhD, he(Anthony) mentions that RMP >> claims that Quality and Emptiness are synonyms.) I really didn't see >> that there was a more appropriate response to be made. And yes, >> it was meant "all in good fun." >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 11:30 AM, 118 wrote: >> >>> Hi Marsha, >>> What did you expect? We have some pretty rigorous definitionists >> patrolling >>> the posts. For what it's worth, I liked it. All in good fun. >>> Mark >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:22 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Mark, >>>> >>>> I thought it just a sweet haiku indicating that each individual has >>>> their own path. Sorry it became something else. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:25 AM, 118 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yea, I agree DMB, relativity is a pretty useless concept. Now >>>>> relationalism, that is a whole 'nother story. And I'm not talking >> about >>>> the >>>>> opposite of absolutism, I'm talkin' Quality. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have any relatives that are dwarfs, so I can't comment on >>>> Marsha's >>>>> giant. >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:11 PM, david buchanan <[email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha said: >>>>>> RELATIVITY: >>>>>> the tallest dwarf >>>>>> meeting the smallest giant >>>>>> - same size >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> dmb says: >>>>>> >>>>>> No, that's not what relativity means. Relativity means there is no >>>> standard >>>>>> by which to measure things like truth and moral values. >>>>>> >>>>>> What you have above is merely three sets of relations. >>>>>> >>>>>> The dwarf is tallest in relation to other dwarves. >>>>>> The giant is the smallest when compared to other giants. >>>>>> In relation to each other, the dwarf and the giant are the same size. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a practical matter, these relations do not depend on one's >>>> perspective >>>>>> or worldview. It just depends on whether or not you can get all the >>>> dwarfs >>>>>> and giants to stand next to a measuring tape. That's how you know >> you've >>>> got >>>>>> the tallest dwarf in the first place. That's how you know all other >>>> giants >>>>>> are bigger. These are quantifiable facts and all three sets of >> relations >>>> are >>>>>> true at the same time without contradiction. The term "relative" can >> be >>>> used >>>>>> to mean "in relation to" or "by comparison with" but that doesn't have >>>>>> anything to do with the objectionable philosophical stance known as >>>>>> relativism. If we say the dwarf is relatively tall, we don't mean his >>>> height >>>>>> cannot be determined or that his height depends on one's understanding >>>> of >>>>>> the term "tall". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Words and concepts are relational in a similar way. As I like to point >>>> out, >>>>>> the meaning of the terms "static" and "dynamic" is relational in the >>>> sense >>>>>> that "static" means the opposite of dynamic and "Dynamic" means the >>>> opposite >>>>>> of static. The meaning of each term is depends on not being the other, >>>> the >>>>>> same way hot and cold or short and tall define each other by >> opposition. >>>>>> Words also derive their meaning by virtue of their relation to context >>>> in >>>>>> which the term is being used. "Tall" can mean "highly exaggerated" >> when >>>>>> we're talking about tales, it can refer to the shape of a cocktail >> glass >>>>>> when talking to a bartender, it can mean "difficult" when we're >> talking >>>>>> about tall orders and tall obstacles. It can refer to a proud posture >> or >>>>>> walking style as well as actual height. Many words are very flexible >> and >>>>>> have many different meanings depending on the context but again this >> is >>>> to >>>>>> say that meaning is relational, not relative to the user. Words mean >>>> what >>>>>> they mean in relation to oth >>>>>> er words and in relation to the context in which it's being used. In >>>> other >>>>>> words, we can't isolate the meaning of a term because it derives it's >>>>>> meaning from the whole language system. This is the net of jewels idea >>>>>> applied to words. Similarly, some philosophers talk about our "web" of >>>>>> beliefs. This image get across the idea that some concepts are more >>>> central >>>>>> than others, which is probably true. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Compared to the top of Mount Everest and the tallest short guy, the >>>> Empire >>>>>> State Building is shorter and taller at the same time. These are not >>>>>> relative truths or opposed claims or two different views. It's merely >>>> two >>>>>> different comparisons, two different facts. The building is never >> going >>>> to >>>>>> be taller than the mountain and it'll never be shorter than any >> person, >>>> not >>>>>> even the tallest giant. I don't mean to be some kind of yard-stick >>>>>> fundamentalist. I'm just saying that relations are just as real as >>>> anything >>>>>> else and it's a part of what it means for something to be true and >>>> right. >>>>>> This could be called relationalism or relationism or wholism or >>>>>> contextualism or situationalism. But relativity or relativism is >>>> something >>>>>> else entirely. It's the philosophical equivalent of combining >> halitosis >>>> with >>>>>> leprosy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
