Hi Andre, [Andre previously in an attack on Marsha, most expletives removed, but caution!]: Let me put it another way: the inorganic level is a "station" through which the organic level is made possible ( yes, by all means use a railway station). The organic level is a station through which the social level is made possible and the social station is the level through which the intellectual level is made possible. All levels are connected, all level communicate with each other.
[Andre previously] If level one (the inorganic) says to the rest:'No way fellas" then nothing will happen. If you are preparing for, and delivering you thesis and the second level says:'Man, you gotta pee or shit' this will sabotage all of your intellectual intentions!You will not be able to perform unless you attend to its requirements and needs. ( I am not sure how the social level will react to you if you deliver your thesis without any clothes on but I do know that it will detract the attention off what you try, intellectually, to present). [Mark] Yes, Andre, this is a bottoms up approach. I am not sure I agree with it. There is also the top down approach which could begin with Emptiness. The bottom up approach is certainly much easier to understand and state, since the levels seem to be structured going up as written. No doubt, the direction could be considered upward. If one invokes current science and our understanding of time, it is also possible to view the levels as you state. But, we still have much to learn, especially in a metaphysical approach. Science does not necessarily need to be invoked, it could have it completely wrong, it is just a description. [Mark] The direction could also be considered downward if we use your staircase. Many ascribe consciousness as that which creates all other. In its human interpretation, consciousness as intellect would be the simplest form or level. One cannot create all the rest without intellect; as Ham would say (I think), it differentiates. Intellect could then result in SOM as a product, intellect is also required for mystical experiences, so SOM does not necessarily have to be alone. SOM would differentiate into society, then biology, then the rest. There is no doubt that the interaction (or flux if you wish) of the inorganic is much more complex than that of the intellect. I believe that complexity stems from simplicity in a fractal kind of way. We choose to complicate or break up pure experience. [Andre] All I am saying is that all is in a steady, static, stable flux. But for the adherents of the SOM/SOL shit to suggest that the intellectual level is a fixed, bolted, welded level, it sure as hell posits as discounting all Mr. Pirsig is standing for: Quality...because it is an event...it is pure experience [Mark] How is flux stable? Are you saying that it repeats itself, pulses, or is circular? Are you talking about a closed universe? What's outside? In my opinion, the intellectual level is as bolted as all the other levels. Are you saying it is not a level? I do not find this discounting, it is a description; I think Pirsig would agree with this (but what do I know). And I wouldn't call Quality an event, if anything it creates events. As always, just MHO Cheers, Mark Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
