Is your father native Dutch or indodutch or an islander from Bonaire/Curacao?
My mother is Dutch, i'm a Belgian, been in The Hague many times , also in S'Gravenhage, Heilo, etc. I live on 1.5 mile of the Dutch border. Physiks/metaphysiks, you cannot have a metaphysikal world without a physikal one , Mark. 2010/10/16 118 <ununocti...@gmail.com> > Hi Andrie, > > Yes, you may be correct, coherence is not one of my strong points. I also > do not wish to discuss religion, and only bring it up as a foil to your use > of science. I am more than happy to discuss based on logic. Just don't > use > physics as if it really proves something in metaphysics. Too many people > are falling into that trap. Physics is a useful tool for communicating > ideas, but it is an idea in itself. > > By the way, I take it you are from Holland. I went to elementary school in > The Hague for four years. This was many years ago so my once semi-fluent > Dutch has faded. My father is Dutch and I have fond memories of the Dutch > people. Hope you guys are still as friendly and sensible as I remember. > > Cheers, > Mark > > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 1:18 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <parser...@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > Well, I'v been reading the edge of chaos in the archives. > > Do you understand the word decoherence? > > Mind this , i can see a very high intellect at the same time. > > > > contemplate. > > Hm, other forms of knowledge/bible. > > > > The bible is not written by Jesus, nor by god,none of the value's within > > the > > old or new testament > > are representing god's or Jesus his opinion or value's. > > I do not dismiss them, i will not discuss them with you. > > > > I think you are clever enough to have a discussion with me , buth i have > my > > doubts on the coherence part. > > All previous evidence is against you. > > The edge of chaos.Hm. > > greetz, Adrie > > > > 2010/10/16 118 <ununocti...@gmail.com> > > > > > Hi Andrie, > > > > > > Spoken like a true preacher, yes even preachers can build lasers. Now, > > get > > > out of your pulpit and contemplate. > > > > > > Yes, light can be described by waves or particles. The key word is > > > described. One can use physics to describe reality in the same way the > > > bible can describe God. There is no difference. If you think that > there > > > is, you are way too deep into Scientism and need to come up for some > air. > > > So like you can say that is very "zen" of you, I would retort well, > that > > > is > > > very "science" of you. You can measure light, others can measure > > > spirituality, it all depends what you use as the ruler. > > > > > > So physics is a great tool for insight, but nothing more. If you think > > you > > > truly understand things through physics, then perhaps consider what the > > > basis is for such understanding. If it is things you have read in > books, > > > or > > > taken classes on, then this is analogous to a seminary education. > Please > > > do > > > not dismiss other forms of knowledge out of hand. We are after all > > talking > > > about MoQ, which can be enhanced by physics but certainly not proven. > > Now, > > > I am making a lot of assumptions based on your recent posts, which is > not > > > quite right of me. However, where does Quality come in? > > > > > > And so, you understand light. So tell me, at what speed would light > > > consider itself to be traveling? Here's a hint: speed equals distance > > (as > > > experienced by the traveler) divided by time (as experienced by the > > > traveler). You take it from there. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 2:51 PM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <parser...@gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > But this is fucking "zen" of you Dave. > > > > > > > > i'm aware of the lightcircle experiment, was done for the first time > by > > > > John > > > > Hedgecoe , a famous English fotographer. > > > > Hm, the Holographic analogy, strange you mention it in a nerd-context > , > > > > strange , because the pioneers work from one of your ancestors in > > > relation > > > > to pumped lasers, was leading to the holographic development. > > > > I investigated your relative, and indeed, the work he was doeiing was > > > very > > > > performant and boundary stretching. > > > > > > > > The pumped lasers were my field homebase for many years. The > > interference > > > > patterns delivered by the pumped lasers > > > > in an opposite towards eachother pointed gunbarrel setup, created the > > > > holographic possibilities. > > > > I can build a ruby or an argonlaser or an yag-laser on my own merits > , > > > but > > > > they originate, Mainmann, Einstein, your ancestor. > > > > Einstein was the cointosser for Maser/laser, he pointed out towards > the > > > > possibility. > > > > > > > > Pumped lasers can make a workaround for the measurementproblem,so a > > nobel > > > > for this work was well earned. > > > > > > > > Quote DMB > > > > > > > > This metaphor breaks down at a certain "point" because that sparkler > or > > > > point of light is not solid thing or entity either. > > > > > > > > Well , not in physiks, light is a solid thing, moving ,but generating > a > > > > force, a light on a surface is generating a pressurediffernce > > > > in opposite to shadow, lesser light , it can be measured , "it" is > > > present > > > > , > > > > light has a weight and a force.It is there. > > > > This is commonly knowledge in science. > > > > > > > > Light cannot dissapear once it is generated, the entropycal nature of > > the > > > > universe does not allow it , it can only degrade to heat, warmth, or > > > other > > > > radiation, energy can never dissapear again. > > > > > > > > So , strictly spoken, if you are an independant observer on a planet > > > > removed > > > > exactly 58 lightyears away from here > > > > you will be able to witness the lightflash of "Ivy" the first nuclear > > > > hydrogen bombexperiment of the Us, done on Eniwetok-atol > > > > in 1952. > > > > This is the time light took for itself to travel at lightspeed, > 300.000 > > > > km/sec , to reach the observer planet. > > > > The light is still there, still travelling, and it will appear to be > > new > > > > for > > > > the independant observer, i will deliver force, and look as a new > > > > expierience, a moment in the present, 58 years old,.... > > > > The relative position of the observer.Strange? no. > > > > > > > > > > > > The jewels. > > > > > > > > Yes , they are like the waves. > > > > > > > > There is no wave dependant or independant from the previous, all > waves > > > are > > > > dependant and independant at the same moment in time. > > > > This goes for sound waves, light waves, pressure waves, > > temperaturewave's > > > , > > > > all waves show the same caracter, all waves > > > > are responding to the uncertainty-principle. > > > > Is a wave a representation of all other wave's? no and yes at the > same > > > > time,(Heisenberg), there is no way around this. > > > > No way, not since Einstein or Heisenberg. > > > > The old man's last question was about the wave caracter of matter. > > > > As in matter is energy and energy is matter, only the appearances are > > > > different(entopical principle) > > > > E= Mc 2, so it appears to be so that also matter is owning the > > > > waveformcaracter. > > > > (*as an aside, this is why i said earlier that quality comes in > waves) > > > > > > > > (E )covers all energy, all light , all movement , from a droplet of > > water > > > > to > > > > an ocean's wave, the movement of planets > > > > the movement of us, all movement , every last bit of it.Every > universe. > > > > M2 is mass square, it covers all mass, every rock, every grain of > sand, > > > > within or without the common universe, every leaf, every > > > > weight , every tree. So ,E and Mc 2 covers the entire universe in > one > > > > formula and nothing is excluded. > > > > > > > > > > > > So the function existence of Wiliam James, the proces is true and > valid > > , > > > > energy is mass, mass is energy,light is darkness, and darkness is > > light, > > > > conciounsness is in-coinciousness, rationality is irrationality, a > > proces > > > > is > > > > a non-proces at the same time. > > > > Rationality cannot exist without irrationality, etc, expandable > without > > > > limitation. > > > > > > > > The squirrels. > > > > > > > > I'v had a peach tree for several years, a native one from Turkey, > > > collected > > > > myself in Selcuk, as a little plant, Selcuk, the cave of seven > > sleepers, > > > > Hadrianus his library, the main street to Ephesos, The statue of > arete. > > > > > > > > We take a little tin can, divide the peaches in two , and fill the > can > > > with > > > > peaches , then add porto of 42 years old, then boil it on the > > > > BBQ, let the peaches take the porto, allow the alcohol to boil in, > the > > > > result is superb, a native peach tree from Selcuk, Porto of 42 years > > old, > > > > boil it in, and eat the peaches, ........this is so very "zen' of me, > > > > fucking zen, "Zen" with a capital peach letter. > > > > > > > > 110 dollar for this bottle porto is not too much, the peaches are > > > heavenly. > > > > I also have a little vineyard. But that's another story. > > > > > > > > loved the squirrel analogy , Dave, thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010/10/15 david buchanan <dmbucha...@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan said to Ron: > > > > > I don't know for sure, but I would say that the selfless existence > > > > doesn't > > > > > mean denying the self so much as it means realizing the self > doesn't > > > > exist > > > > > in light of the Buddha's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > dmb says: > > > > > William James says that consciousness is not a thing or an entity > but > > > > > exists as a function, as a process. Alan Watts uses the image of a > > > point > > > > of > > > > > light moving in a circular motion, like a sparkler on the fourth of > > > july. > > > > In > > > > > the darkness, a steady motion can make that point look like a full > > > > circle. > > > > > To mistake the self as a thing or entity is like taking that point > > for > > > a > > > > > circle. This metaphor breaks down at a certain "point" because that > > > > sparkler > > > > > or point of light is not solid thing or entity either. > > > > > > > > > > And when you start to think of all the things that make > consciousness > > > > > possible - words, tongues, brains, sounds, gravity, food, mothers, > > > > > evolution, etc, etc, etc forever - the notion that it is some one > > > > particular > > > > > "thing" starts to seem pretty absurd. You know, this is what the > net > > of > > > > > jewels image means. Each jewel reflects all the other jewels and is > > > what > > > > it > > > > > is only in relation to all other jewels. Some people (nerds) prefer > > the > > > > > holographic analogy. I mean, the idea of co-dependent arising > applies > > > to > > > > the > > > > > self just as much as any other "thing". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inspired by the recent discussion concerning quality in writing, I > > > wrote > > > > a > > > > > poem. It's a meditation on my back yard and it came to me as I had > a > > > > > cigarette there just now. If it had a title it would be something > > like: > > > > "NOT > > > > > very fucking Zen of you, Dave!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a peach tree grows > > > > > squirrels skitter > > > > > a garden hose > > > > > becomes a weapon > > > > > against hungry little thieves > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. The peaches were awesome. We had a peach-picking dinner party > > for > > > > some > > > > > friends. I did not invite the squirrels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > > > Archives: > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > parser > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > > Archives: > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > parser > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
