Hello everyone On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:15 AM, Ian Glendinning <[email protected]> wrote: > Dave, Dan, > > Absolutely Dave, natural selection occurs in all living levels of > nature - basic Darwinism. > In the socio-intellectual levels we have the added complication of > human intent and free-will based choices, but the natural selection > doesn't go away.
Hi Ian Well, I certainly never said that natural selection goes away. What I said was that natural selection isn't dependent upon free will. John and others seem convinced that Quality and free will are synonymous. This seems to imply that we can will ourselves towards what's better... Dynamic Quality, if you will. RMP makes it clear that we can't know that. My question to Dave was that if we do not know what's better, then how can we will ourselves towards it? >Ian: > At that pre-intellectual cutting edge, life-changing events happen > without rational intent. The memes march on just as the genes do at > the biological level. Dan: Again, the question isn't whether evolution is occurring at all four levels. That wouldn't make sense as they are evolutionary levels as defined within the framework of the MOQ. The question is, is free will involved, or not? Thank you, Dan > > Ian > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Dan said: >> Natural selection pertains to the biological level. There is no choice >> involved. The fittest survive to pass on those survival traits while the >> less fit hit an evolutionary dead end. At the biological level, the >> environment seems to determine the fittest. >> >> dmb says: >> Well, there is that section in chapter 11 of Lila where Pirsig describes the >> role of "spur of the moment decisions" that direct the progress of evolution >> as "in fact, Dynamic Quality itself. DQ, the source of all things, the >> pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, always appears as 'spur of the >> moment.' Where else could it appear?" (142) >> >> These decisions are not made deliberately in the human sense, of course, but >> are choices made within whatever range of possible action is available to >> the evolving species in question. I mean, a rat will get off the hot stove >> too. Hopefully. >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
