Mark. [Mark] Evolution, as it is used in biology, is based on the development of species within an observed niche. The species adapts to fill that niche in the most effective way. A koi pond is such a niche. In such a case, man is part of the evolutionary pressure, no different from the amount of rain in a rain forest. Some like to treat man as separate from nature, but I think this is a false paradigm. Man is nature, and as such contributes to evolution within a niche. If a giraffe wanders into the desert, it will not survive, neither will an orchid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adrie What really happens is this.I will simplify the example. Every known species has a natural mutation frequency. Therefore "Mutation" or the ability to mutate, is a normal species behaviour. Mutations will happen in correlation with the environment, or without. In nature the Koi's developed also,the pattern to mutate to very nice forms with stains and different colors,in latency, this ability was always present in their DNA, but nature itself filtered them out in natural environments. It became a recessive genetical factor in the DNA,...but taken into a pond, isolated from nature, it was not a big trick, to crossbreed them back with relatives, in an incestual relation to make them show their ability to make the recessive factor dominant again. This time however, it is not filtered out. (Mark) Epigenetics involves, in part, the covalent modification of DNA through reactions such as methylation. Such methylation patterns acquired, do the the environment, can be conferred to offspring according to current theory. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Adrie) Bi-covalent modification of traits, without altering the DNA_RNA engine coding, will stay bi-covalent just because of this restriction. I already talked about mutations triggered by radiation,chemics,...etc. The act of methylation, is changing the environment as such that the modification or change will accept this as a pre-cursor to modify itself. So its a bit of an evolution within evolution,evolution capable of evolving within itself. But , without altering the DNA, we cannot ever speak of a new species,take it back to nature the filtering will kill it. A giraffe in the desert,? i did not make a proposal like that,nor do i want to launch the idea of kicking a polar bear to Ethiopia,... I'v clearly meant to say,place it back into its natural environment.Don't change the variables. 2011/3/27 118 <[email protected]> > Hi Adrie, > Some remarks at the end. > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 1:11 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Incestual crossbreed brings out the best unknown traits in the offspring. > > But!!, it will also bring out the worst case scenario's.The number of bad > > mutations will spice up real far.The Jack Wattley discus fish is a good > > example of incestual breeding and crossing back. > > Perfect results for in a fish tank, no changes of survival in the nature. > > Nature will filter them back out if tried. > > > > Or try the Pigeon blood discus as example, or the Malboro's or the > > leopards,or the 'degen-discus', changeless in nature,...(visability for > > predators.) > > > > Same goes for Koi really, most are very beautiful, but taken back to > nature, > > the visability for predators is simply to high.And they lost the ability > to > > protect themselves to cancer mostly. > > > > Think of the Orchid hybrids(F1 Hybrids), Maize,(F1 Hybrids)...chanceless > > outside a controlled monoculture. > > The breeders are clever,However, they kill immediatly all results that > are > > unwished,and mostly will deny it. > > > > > > But i do have to say, the field Ian is coining,Epigenetics, is a very > > interesting and promising field.But a change and a modification,will > almost > > never become a mutation. > > Checked it out in the Kew gardens dbase.solid. good field. > > > > Adrie > > > > [Mark] > Evolution, as it is used in biology, is based on the development of > species within an observed niche. The species adapts to fill that > niche in the most effective way. A koi pond is such a niche. In such > a case, man is part of the evolutionary pressure, no different from > the amount of rain in a rain forest. Some like to treat man as > separate from nature, but I think this is a false paradigm. Man is > nature, and as such contributes to evolution within a niche. If a > giraffe wanders into the desert, it will not survive, neither will an > orchid. > > Epigenetics involves, in part, the covalent modification of DNA > through reactions such as methylation. Such methylation patterns > acquired, do the the environment, can be conferred to offspring > according to current theory. Of course the interaction of the > environment on the species as a deterministic heritable trait is still > a growing field. This is contrary to the genetic theories of, say, 30 > years ago, where the genetic sequence was everything. The Nature v > Nurture paradigm is constantly shifting in balance. One useful way of > looking at it is that the genetic code itself has no inherent > existence. That is, it is a dynamic interplay of the outside with the > inside, and no clear demarkation can be made. The notions of > entanglement and codependent arising are useful here, and will > eventually enter into the field of biology. Drawing strict lines of > distinction is always difficult and misleading. Science progresses by > starts and plateaus, and sometimes back-tracking. New theories take a > while to escape the entrenched dogma. This is no different from MoQ. > > Cheers, > Mark > > > > -- > > parser > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
