Good Points all, Mr. Thomas, Thanks for confirming my own take on things. That always feels good.
> [Dave] > Whether you take the "Word" as that of the narrator, Phaedrus, or Pirsig, > one must be careful not to take it as gospel. > > [http://www.victorianweb.org/vn/victor4.html] > "In religion, the Victorians experienced a great age of doubt, the first > that called into question institutional Christianity on such a large scale. > In literature and the other arts, the Victorians attempted to combine > Romantic emphases upon self, emotion, and imagination with Neoclassical > ones > upon the public role of art and a corollary responsibility of the artist. > > In ideology, politics, and society, the Victorians created astonishing > innovation and change: democracy, feminism, unionization of workers, > socialism, Marxism, and other modern movements took form. In fact, this age > of Darwin, Marx, and Freud appears to be not only the first that > experienced > modern problems but also the first that attempted modern solutions. > Victorian, in other words, can be taken to mean parent of the modern -- and > like most powerful parents, it provoked a powerful reaction against > itself." > > [Dave] > The dogma that sons always rebel against their fathers seems to play itself > out in Pirsig's take on the Victorians. Even though most of the ideas he > develops in Lila are rooted in Victorians such as Darwin, James, Marx he > still bad mouths that society as a whole. His take is shallow and typical > of > those write off the whole period out of hand with little understanding of > it. > John: The casting off of the Fathers by the Sons, is a very interesting point, Dave. DQ breaking free of sq! Over and over again, generations ongoing. In fairness, Pirsig does also praise the Victorians and aknowledges their many contributions. Thanks for the reference. I find this period very much "a second great renaissance" and I believe will be seen to be so even more clearly, in the looming dark age ahead. > > [http://www.victorianweb.org/vn/victor4.html] > "For much of the last century the term Victorian, which literally describes > things and events in the reign of Queen Victoria (1837-1901), conveyed > connotations of "prudish," "repressed," and "old fashioned." Although such > associations have some basis in fact, they do not adequately indicate the > nature of this complex, paradoxical age that was a second English > Renaissance." > > For those who might be interested this site seems have a more balanced > approach to the era. > > Dave > > An interesting idea arises from thinking about your comments: even as Phaedrus had a large aspect of intellectualism in him, which Pirsig fought against and novelized the battle, so too is your insight "sons of the fathers" right on and shows that the victorian straw man railed at in Lila, is the victorian impulse detected in the writings of the author, fought against again by defining, villifying and overcoming. The battles go ever on. J Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
