Marsha, Yes, we are in some agreement. I thought we were. Even saying "analogy all the way down" is an analogy. Thanks, Mark
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 11:30 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > I think we are very close in understanding 'neti-neti.' I am very > comfortable considering DQ to be 'not this, not that.' I also use > the phrase as a reminder that these discussions are analogy > all the way down, and words used to explain are NOT the > the fundamental nature of reality, neither is the map, the menu, > or the finger. 'Not this, not that' is a wonderful recognition of the > present. imho. > > Thank you. > > > Marsha > > > > > > On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:05 PM, 118 wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> I just got to this post to me. Thanks for the question and open >> dialogue. I am happy to present my opinion of neti-neti. I have the >> sense that you already know what it means. Any meaningful exchange >> should come through dialogue which is difficult in this format since >> while you can read my words, you cannot read the intonation of such, >> or look at my expressions while talking. Obviously the fewer words >> used is better (not this, not that is only four), but at the expense >> of misdirection I will try a few more. I will try to frame my >> exposition in MoQ terms, as I understand it. >> >> First the small print so that my words do not get thrown to the wolves. >> This is my opinion, and I am not proclaiming a Truth, but a personal >> awareness. I can provide posted signs only. Any interpretation of >> these words is your responsibility, not my doing. I can be held >> responsible for further explaining what I write right now, and can >> also be responsible if I change my mind some time in the future >> (outside of the moments of this particular writing). Neti-neti >> cannot be subjected to the equations of words. Such an equation is a >> finger pointing. When I use the word "is", in some cases, it is with >> metaphorical intent. >> >> With that said, there are probably a thousand ways to explain >> neti-neti. First the part about what it is not. Neti-neti is not for >> creating an object. By saying that neti-neti IS something we miss the >> point. Such an action relegates the phrase into the static world. It >> is an awareness and not a Truth. It is used to bring about some >> enlightenment for those who are ready (I am not ready, by the way). >> >> One way to start is to present neti-neti 'as' Dynamic Quality. Now, >> that IS ineffable, and is also what you also correctly (imo) say. >> This of course does not explain anything. One way to get to neti-neti >> is through mindfulness. But, this is a technique and not an >> explanation. If we try to remove ourselves from the static world that >> our intellect creates, we are left with the moment. Let's call that >> the pre-intellectual although this is not quite correct, since the >> intellect also occurs in the moment. But at least this way I will >> conform with the vernacular of this forum. What is actually happening >> in the pre-intellectual? We cannot explain it, since in reality it >> doesn't exist but is evolving from nanosecond (or less) to nanosecond. >> Yet, we know personally that it exists. So, something that we know >> exists, but we can never find 'is' neti-neti. It is not an illusion >> or delusion by any means, it is very real. >> >> I could go on, but I will leave it at that for feedback if you wish. >> Your interpretation will certainly help me grow. >> >> Cheers, >> Mark >> >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:56 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> I really would like to hear from you on the subject of 'neti-neti' - >>> 'not this, not that.' I suppose I use it to cut through the fog of my >>> mental assumptions, to remind myself that these patterns are >>> ever-changing, interdependent, and impermanent. If I am >>> greatly misinterpreting the phrase, please correct me. I will >>> seriously consider what you say. >>> >>> >>> Marsha > >> > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
