Hi DMB This I agree with DMB "I keep saying, is WHY Pirsig REPLACES causality with patterns of preference, because that switch denies the central premise of scientific determinism. It takes the law-like mechanical obedience out of the picture even at the "physical" level and even less so for evolved creatures like us."
This though confuses two aspects of causation itself: DMB "This switch introduces choice even among the most predictable and regular patterns we know of and the range of freedom only increases from there." Even when exercising freedom and choice, we nevertheless expect causal relations between what we choose, and the intended outcomes (Steve made this point with reference to Dennett). In both cases "determinism" or "free-will", we all need to recognise that causation is not a simple hard one-way effect (not even at the physical level at you say) .... hence woollier "preference" implying more complex uncertain interacting effects at play. The word preference does also imply choice - but many different patterns and all levels making "choices", patterns that both free will and determinism are made of. Causation is simply a useful linguistic metaphor "as if" one thing mechanistically caused another. Pirsig is reminding us not to forget that is always merely a convention. BTW - Dennett offers the distinction between "greedy reductionist" view of determinism being contrary to free-will, and the more enlightened view that free-will and determinism co-exist in more complex patterns. I suspect Steve also mentioned that already. Ian PS What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
