Marsha, That is not what dmb is asking for. He wants to play wack his Pee-Pee (can I say that on this forum?)
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > dmb, > > I have no desire to discuss free-will or determinism with you, and I have no > desire to play Whack-A-Mole. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > On Jul 18, 2011, at 11:13 AM, david buchanan wrote: > >> >> One minute, Marsha says: >> >> In the MoQ, there is no subject and there are no objects. If there is no >> subject - if there is no self - then there is no subject/self to have >> freedom of the will, and likewise, there is no subject/self who has a life >> that is determined. The issue is meaningless. >> >> The next minute Marsha says: >> For me, the MoQ's self is a collection of ever-changing, interrelated, >> impermanent, static patterns of inorganic, biological, social and >> intellectual value in a field of Dynamic Quality. >> >> dmb asks: >> So, which is it. Does the MOQ say there is no self or not? And if the MOQ >> does say a self exists, why is freedom and morality meaningless? >> >> Steve applauds Marsha's back-tracking contradictions: >> Exactly. Well said. And we can add that this does NOT render talk of freedom >> meaningless. Pirsig obviously had a lot to say on the subject. In the MOQ, >> freedom is associated with DQ rather than with "the will." >> >> dmb says: >> As Marsha just construed it, the MOQ's self is a collection of static >> patterns in a field of DQ and as you have just construed it, freedom is >> associated with DQ rather than "the will", and by "will" I guess you mean >> the will of a Cartesian subject. >> >> But why is Marsha's static self IN A FIELD of DQ? Isn't it true that DQ is >> not external to the MOQ's self? And since we are talking about the relative >> freedom and constraint of the MOQ's self, why do you insist that the MOQ's >> self can have a "will"? What sense can we make of the MOQ's "betterness" >> without some kind of will? >> >> Seems like it doesn't matter how many times I try to explain this but the >> problem with your position isn't really metaphysical or philosophical. It's >> just logically bogus, sometimes even to the extent of maintaining opposite >> positions. >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
