On Aug 17, 2011, at 5:10 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Arlo Bensinger wrote:
>
>> [Marsha]
>> RMP does, in fact, state that it is an illusion.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> Right, Marsha, he states the "autonomous self" is an illusion, because the
>> "autonomous self" is a product of S/O thinking.
>>
>> But if you move up to a MOQ perspective, there are NO illusions OR
>> existants, there are patterns of value. The pattern "self" is no more an
>> illusion (or an existential existant) than a car, or a bird, or a song, or a
>> system of map coordinates.
>>
>> Do you not see that it makes zero sense to say, within a MOQ, that some
>> patterns of value are "illusions" and some patterns of value are "real"?
>> That's simply importing S/O thinking into the fabric of the MOQ.
>>
>> The "self", within a MOQ, is neither an illusion or an existential existant.
>> It is a pattern of value, one whose value (persistence/stability) is marked
>> by how well it works in describing experience, in other words its
>> experiential value.
>
> Marsha:
> Yes, the "autonomous self" is an illusion. I have for a very long time
> stated that I see the self within the MoQ as a flow of ever-changing,
> conditionally co-dependent and impermanent, static patterns of inorganic,
> biological, social and intellectual value in a field of Dynamic Quality.
>
Arlo,
Do you understand that maya?
"In addition to the Dynamic Quality viewpoint of the MoQ corresponding
to what Nagarjuna terms sunyatta(ie; the indeterminate or the world
of the Buddhas), the static quality viewpoint of the moq also corresponds
to _sunyavada_ (ie,the conditioned component or world of _maya_)
of Nagarjuna. _Sunyavada_ includes all conceptions of reality including
metaphysikal views, ideals, religious beliefs, hopes and ambitions; in other
words,using moq terminology, static quality patterns
(McWatt, Anthony, 'AN INTRODUCTION TO ROBERT PIRSIG’S METAPHYSICS OF
QUALITY')
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