Hi Marsha, I beg to differ. Quality is a relationship one can have with existence. You won't know it until you have been there. DQ is part of that relationship. Of course it is not an intellectual thingy like you say, but that is not everything, now is it? Just like you cannot find the self with the intellect, you cannot find Quality with the intellect. You are just looking for love in all the wrong places... Just stop this logical nonsense.
By the way, I was not speaking of an "experience", that sounds like some kind of static psychology. Like some kind of brain fart. Get beyond that. It depend not on one's history, never has. DQ is what creates that history. It is not an Aha, never was, that is the result of DQ. You are approaching this in the wrong way, completely (in my humble opinion). MoQ has not gotten anywhere since Pirsig's pronouncements. What kind of metaphysics is that? Sounds more like a tombstone. "He tried to explain Qyality, and they put him on a shelf". Just think of it as a relationship with your own existence. That thing which creates your thoughts and emotions and all else. What happens when there is not SQ around? I suppose you will never know, because you keep boxing everything in. There is much more than your intellectual musings. They are like frost on a window. Cheers, Mark On 6/21/12, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Joe & Mark, > > Dynamic Quality isn't any thing. It isn't 'dark night', or chaos; it is > unpatterned; it is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable. I would imagine > that there might be different responses in relationship to such experiences, > and a dark night funk might be one of them, but not necessarily. Wouldn't > it depend on one's static pattern history and the dynamics of the event(s)? > A monk having spent a lifetime in a monastery might react with AHA! Someone > from a hyper-rational environment might react with a OMG! > > > Marsha > > > > > > > On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:13 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Pure DQ is dark night. Just look at what happened to Pirsig that >> required his brain to be rebooted! Pretty dark indeed, for that was >> severe treatment as he says in ZAMM. He lost his personality, and had >> only some vague memories and some writing to go by to discover who he >> was. Must have been pretty disturbing. Even in Lila he treats his >> personality from before as a third person. He states that he had to >> try to analyze a romantic view with a classical view. >> >> He is not the only one this happened to through the ages. It is a >> personal time when nothing makes sense, and one is lost. Some >> describe this as extreme temptation (see Buddha). Then hopefully >> there is rebirth and a new view. Pirsig had a bit of this, but >> unfortunately he cannot remember what it was like to be "aware" like >> he was before the electroconvulsive therapy. Still, he did a good job >> with his first autobiography in presenting what he may have "seen" and >> made it useful when he brought back it into the ghost of reason for >> the rest of us. >> >> One cannot live in DQ alone. It can be dark. Be careful if you >> decide to go there, it is no fantasy story. It is not just a state of >> mind. Best to stay in this comfortable world of knowledge and not >> tempt those boundaries. >> >> Cheers, >> Mark >> >> On 6/19/12, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> Is DQ dark night??? Or is dark night the pointless suffering in a world >>> filled with attachment to violent (false) static patterns and a false >>> sense >>> of control? Maybe it is the confusion that seems darkest before the >>> dawn? >>> Fear of letting go? Why? No guarantees? Lost expectations? Why chaos >>> and >>> not fear-free Oneness? Fear of there being nothing to know and no one >>> to >>> know it. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi MarshaV and All, >>>> >>>> DQ is Dark Night. Seemingly nothing, since is declared to be >>>> indefinable! >>>> DQ is not nothing! Comforting emotion makes my hair stand on end like a >>>> madman. I feel so terribly alone. The wonder of wonders is that DQ >>>> can >>>> stand alone begging SQ for boundaries. The response to DQ only is: Are >>>> you >>>> nuts? What are you talking about? Oh shit! And away we go! >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/19/12 1:04 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dark night stuff cannot be very pleasant and I wonder if it might help >>>>> to >>>>> make >>>>> it a topic. It is a common experience in many of the strains of >>>>> perennial >>>>> philosophy. Or maybe just doing some reading on the subject can help. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
