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Hi

28 aug 2012 kl. 18.22 skrev david buchanan:

> 
> Marsha said:
> It is true that patterns may include a collection of words, and I take 
> patterns as hypothetical (supposed but not neccesarily real or true).  I 
> think considering patterns to be hypothetical acknowledges the incompleteness 
> of patterns and makes room for new possibilities.  ...I'll stick to 
> considering static patterns of value as hypothetical.  ...I did not state 
> that 'truth' was wrong, bad or didn't exist.  I stated that I value more 
> highly using the word 'pattern' rather then 'truth'; and I prefer to think of 
> patterns as 'hypothetical'.  ...I prefer to think of objects of knowledge 
> (patterns) as hypothetical.  Once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal 
> that the world is nothing but Value, then 'expanded rationality' occurs when 
> an individual transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into 
> the natural tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical 
> (supposed but not neccesarily real or true.)  By using 'hypothetical'    
> ...After much thoug
 ht
> , I wrote a very careful explanation of why I prefer to think of patterns as 
> hypothetical:
> 
> 
> 
> dmb says:
> Marsha is using the MOQ's critique of SOM against the MOQ itself. She is 
> inappropriately using Pirsig's attack on Objective truth to attack Pirsig's 
> own pragmatic truth. She has confused the sickness with the medicine. That's 
> how she ends up denigrating truth, philosophy, the MOQ itself and 
> intellectual values in general. It's a heart-breaking pile of incoherent 
> drivel, confusion and conflation of the operative terms, and big heaps of 
> contradictory nonsense.
> 
> THE PROBLEM - Our modes of rationality are no longer adequate.
> 
> "Our current modes of rationality are not moving society forward into a 
> better world. They are taking it further and further from that better world.  
> ...the whole structure of reason, handed down to us from ancient times, is no 
> longer adequate. It begins to be seen for what it really is...emotionally 
> hollow, esthetically meaningless and spiritually empty." 
> "I think the basic fault that underlies the problem of stuckness is 
> traditional rationality's insistence upon "objectivity," a doctrine that 
> there is a divided reality of subject and object. For true science to take 
> place these must be rigidly separate from each other."
> "When traditional rationality divides the world into subjects and objects it 
> shuts out Quality, and when you're really stuck it's Quality, not any 
> subjects or objects, that tells you where you ought to go."
> "the thing to be analyzed, is not Quality, but those peculiar habits of 
> thought called 'squareness' that sometimes prevent us from seeing it. ..The 
> subject for analysis, the patient on the table, was no longer Quality, but 
> analysis itself. Quality was healthy and in good shape. Analysis, however, 
> seemed to have something wrong with it that prevented it from seeing the 
> obvious." 
> "He did nothing for Quality or the Tao. What benefited was reason." The 
> problem is that "Reason and Quality had become separated and in conflict with 
> each other" back in the days of Plato.
> 
> THE SOLUTION - A root expansion of rationality through the inclusion of 
> Quality at it's center; rationality, like motorcycle maintenance, becomes a 
> form of art.
> "He [Phaedrus] felt that the solution started with a new philosophy, or he 
> saw it as even broader than that...a new spiritual rationality...in which the 
> ugliness and the loneliness and the spiritual blankness of dualistic 
> technological reason would become illogical. Reason was no longer to be 
> "value free." Reason was to be subordinate, logically, to Quality." 
> "What's emerging from the pattern of my own life is the belief that the 
> crisis is being caused by the inadequacy of existing forms of thought to cope 
> with the situation. It can't be solved by rational means because the 
> rationality itself is the source of the problem. The only ones who're solving 
> it are solving it at a personal level by abandoning 'square' rationality 
> altogether and going by feelings alone. Like John and Sylvia here. And 
> millions of others like them. And that seems like a wrong direction too. So I 
> guess what I'm trying to say is that the solution to the problem isn't that 
> you abandon rationality but that you expand the nature of rationality so that 
> it's capable of coming up with a solution." 
> "Now I want to show that that classic pattern of rationality can be 
> tremendously improved, expanded and made far more effective through the 
> formal recognition of Quality in its operation." 
> "I think that it will be found that a formal acknowledgment of the role of 
> Quality in the scientific process doesn't destroy the empirical vision at 
> all. It expands it, strengthens it and brings it far closer to actual 
> scientific practice."
> "A motorcycle functions entirely in accordance with the laws of reason, and a 
> study of the art of motorcycle maintenance is really a miniature study of the 
> art of  rationality itself."
> 

Right, David and Marsha

The next "pattern" to study after that is Thermodynamics and the art of losing 
your presumptions....

Jan Anders

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