dmb to Marsha:
You can honestly say that reading this collection of quotes DOESN't explain
anything?
Marsha to dmb:
It is a list of quotes without any explanation whatsoever. I assume if you
wanted the list of quotes to represent an explanation you would have explained
how it did, but you didn't.
dmb says:
But there was an explanation. In fact, at least part of it was duplicated along
with your denial as to its existence. It came right after I quoted your
comments but before I quoted Pirsig. So obviously, the quotes are meant to
support for my case against your comments. I said, "Marsha is using the MOQ's
critique of SOM against the MOQ itself. She is inappropriately using Pirsig's
attack on Objective truth to attack Pirsig's own pragmatic truth. She has
confused the sickness with the medicine. That's how she ends up denigrating
truth, philosophy, the MOQ itself and intellectual values in general."
Then because the accusation is that you've confused the problem with the
solution, I presented two sets of quotes one titled "THE PROBLEM - Our modes
of rationality are no longer adequate" and the other titled "THE SOLUTION - A
root expansion of rationality through the inclusion of Quality at it's center".
Read these quotes with my criticism in mind. It should allow you to see the
difference between the problem and Pirsig's solution to that problem.
THE PROBLEM - Our modes of rationality are no longer adequate.
> >>
> >> "Our current modes of rationality are not moving society forward into a
> >> better world. They are taking it further and further from that better
> >> world. ...the whole structure of reason, handed down to us from ancient
> >> times, is no longer adequate. It begins to be seen for what it really
> >> is...emotionally hollow, esthetically meaningless and spiritually empty."
> >> "I think the basic fault that underlies the problem of stuckness is
> >> traditional rationality's insistence upon "objectivity," a doctrine that
> >> there is a divided reality of subject and object. For true science to take
> >> place these must be rigidly separate from each other."
> >> "When traditional rationality divides the world into subjects and objects
> >> it shuts out Quality, and when you're really stuck it's Quality, not any
> >> subjects or objects, that tells you where you ought to go."
> >> "the thing to be analyzed, is not Quality, but those peculiar habits of
> >> thought called 'squareness' that sometimes prevent us from seeing it.
> >> ..The subject for analysis, the patient on the table, was no longer
> >> Quality, but analysis itself. Quality was healthy and in good shape.
> >> Analysis, however, seemed to have something wrong with it that prevented
> >> it from seeing the obvious."
> >> "He did nothing for Quality or the Tao. What benefited was reason." The
> >> problem is that "Reason and Quality had become separated and in conflict
> >> with each other" back in the days of Plato.
> >>
> >> THE SOLUTION - A root expansion of rationality through the inclusion of
> >> Quality at it's center; rationality, like motorcycle maintenance, becomes
> >> a form of art.
> >> "He [Phaedrus] felt that the solution started with a new philosophy, or he
> >> saw it as even broader than that...a new spiritual rationality...in which
> >> the ugliness and the loneliness and the spiritual blankness of dualistic
> >> technological reason would become illogical. Reason was no longer to be
> >> "value free." Reason was to be subordinate, logically, to Quality."
> >> "What's emerging from the pattern of my own life is the belief that the
> >> crisis is being caused by the inadequacy of existing forms of thought to
> >> cope with the situation. It can't be solved by rational means because the
> >> rationality itself is the source of the problem. The only ones who're
> >> solving it are solving it at a personal level by abandoning 'square'
> >> rationality altogether and going by feelings alone. Like John and Sylvia
> >> here. And millions of others like them. And that seems like a wrong
> >> direction too. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the solution to
> >> the problem isn't that you abandon rationality but that you expand the
> >> nature of rationality so that it's capable of coming up with a solution."
> >> "Now I want to show that that classic pattern of rationality can be
> >> tremendously improved, expanded and made far more effective through the
> >> formal recognition of Quality in its operation."
> >> "I think that it will be found that a formal acknowledgment of the role of
> >> Quality in the scientific process doesn't destroy the empirical vision at
> >> all. It expands it, strengthens it and brings it far closer to actual
> >> scientific practice."
> >> "A motorcycle functions entirely in accordance with the laws of reason,
> >> and a study of the art of motorcycle maintenance is really a miniature
> >> study of the art of rationality itself."
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