Marsha V asked February 22nd: Hi Ant, What exactly do you mean by "world of the Buddha" [sic]?
Good question, Marsha. It's a phrase of Robert Pirsig's that he often used in my correspondence with him which he has, in turn, borrowed from East Asian literature. It relates to the Zen "mountains and rivers" poem: Before you study Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers; [the static viewpoint of the MOQ as found in ZMM and LILA] While you are studying Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers; [the Dynamic viewpoint of the MOQ as found in "LILA's Child" and the McWatt-Pirsig PhD correspondence. This is the "World of the Buddhas" viewpoint you were asking about] But once you have had enlightenment mountains are once again mountains and rivers again rivers. [the static-Dynamic viewpoint of the MOQ found in McWatt-Pirsig PhD correspondence; further explanation of this "dual" perspective is given by Paul Turner in his Tetralemma article at: http://robertpirsig.org/Tetralemma.htm ]. Marsha continued: "Is that suppose to be some mysterious, ambiguous, unreachable, strawman perspective to conveniently dismiss what which is non-western, or might it too be legitimate human insight available from direct experience at different stages of meditation or Buddhist practice? Experiences that might not be available to those who do not have the 'patience' to meditate? RMP was suppose to have had a sudden realization, not a miraculous transformation into a Buddha." Ant comments: My feeling is that this dual "static-Dynamic" perspective is only understood after years of thought and reflection. As far as Pirsig is concerned, I think this relates to the time between his 1948 journey to Korea and his shorter 1961 journey to the nuthouse in Chicago. Though I doubt meditation is an essential requirement to achieve this realisation, I think it certainly helps; as do psychedelics (such as peyote) when used in a responsible manner. Marsha continued: "It seems too easy to dismiss the Buddhist philosophical perspective with a simple 'it represents the "world of the Buddha"' [sic]. RMP said that the ideal is to hold the DQ perspective and the sq perspective simultaneously." Ant comments: Yes, as I said above, this "ideal" that Pirsig mentions, relates to the third part of the "Mountains and Rivers" Zen poem. Marsha continued: Would that ideal be a contradiction and too much from the "world of the Buddha" [sic]? Or how about something being from the 'world of Perennial Philosophy'? Is that more comfortable? Can you more easily justify that?" Ant comments: I think introducing a notion of 'the world of Perennial Philosophy" would confuse things in this particular context. The "World of the Buddhas" is a poetic phrase; not a label for a particular philosophical tradition. The phrase 'The World of Perennial Philosophy" would, however, make a great title for a documentary series! Best wishes, Ant . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
